Bad tenants? reasonable estate agent? what is landlord's right

ileven1225

Dear everyone,

I need some advice as this is a very unlucky situation and I would like to know what right a landlord have.

The tenants were living in an apartment (i am the landlord) for 2 years, they paid the rent on time and there was no issue at all. Recently due to the pandemic, there were a few times the rent was delayed and sometimes it could delay for 2 months. As the property managed by an estate agent, they paid a visit to the property which triggered this drama. It was found that the tenant had a dog since day 1 but was never found by the estate agent even the agent claimed that they checked the property every 6 months. I guess it was the advance notice to the tenants who could have prepared the flat for the agent visit/check. The leather sofa was completely worn out. 2 years ago the sofa had black leather and now it was completely in grey/white as all leather was worn off by the dog! The toilet was broken and the agent investigated the cause and concluded that it was due to tenant's fault. The tenants now have already moved out and the Estate Agent informed the tenants that most of their deposits will be deducted. No surprise the tenants disagreed the deduction and the only solution is the dispute in TDS. The issues still left to the landlord:

• The sofa needs to be replaced completely - Estate Agent told me that it is unlikely that the sofa would be paid in full by the tenants even they believe it was caused the tenant's dog. The sofa was £1500 and if lucky TDS would agree £100-200 maximum. It was due to TDS has normal wear and tear rule and they would not consider the sofa condition before the tenants moved in. They only consider sofa's age. 
• The toilet needs to be repaired (£400-600) - Estate Agent told me that it is unlikely that TDS would agree the deduction at all. So they suggested that this repair would not be claimed and shown to TDS.
• The property was unoccupied for 5 weeks - not as bad as I expected, the agent did work hard to find new tenants, the finding new tenants process only started from the tenants moved out, nothing I could do anyway.
• The previous tenants disagreed with the deduction, however, they still haven't put the dispute to the TDS yet and it seems there is no further response from the tenants. I would like to solve this issue/dispute as soon as possible and even there is a little money but still help. It seems we could do nothing until the tenants put formal dispute in TDS and the waiting time could be years, which I was told by the estate agent.
• The tenants used a previous tenant's name registered electricity and the bill I found was £2000 in debt. However, I believe I was not responsible for this bill. 
• The estate agent did not give much useful advice and I can only wait and wait, they told me that there is nothing more they could do. It seems all loss will be taken by the landlord, not the estate agent neither the tenants. 

Please let me know what I could do to protect me a bit more and get compensation as I don't believe I shall pay all of them. 

Thanks everyone in advance!

AdrianC

ileven1225 said:

The tenants now have already moved out and the Estate Agent informed the tenants that most of their deposits will be deducted. No surprise the tenants disagreed the deduction and the only solution is the dispute in TDS.

Yup. That's exactly right. All the actual damage you can document will be withheld from the deposit.

The issues still left to the landlord:

• The sofa needs to be replaced completely - Estate Agent told me that it is unlikely that the sofa would be paid in full by the tenants even they believe it was caused the tenant's dog. The sofa was £1500 and if lucky TDS would agree £100-200 maximum. It was due to TDS has normal wear and tear rule and they would not consider the sofa condition before the tenants moved in. They only consider sofa's age.

Correct.
Let's say the sofa has an expected 10yr life. They've had two years use out of it - so if it was brand new when they moved in, you have lost 8yrs of life from it. The tenants pay 80%. If it was 5yo when they moved in, you have lost 3yrs life, so they pay 30%.

The toilet needs to be repaired (£400-600) - Estate Agent told me that it is unlikely that TDS would agree the deduction at all.

If you can demonstrate that the damage was caused by them, then this is a fair deduction.

The tenants used a previous tenant's name registered electricity and the bill I found was £2000 in debt. However, I believe I was not responsible for this bill.

How did they do this? Presumably, the electricity was in your name while the property was empty, and you informed the supplier of the new tenant and the meter reading when they moved in?

The estate agent did not give much useful advice

So hire a different agent next time.

[Deleted User]

@ileven1225 read the Tenancies in Eng/Wales sticky at the top of the board particularly the sections about deposits and selecting/sacking a letting agent. 

csgohan4

ileven1225 said:

Dear everyone,

• The toilet needs to be repaired (£400-600) - Estate Agent told me that it is unlikely that TDS would agree the deduction at all. So they suggested that this repair would not be claimed and shown to TDS.
• 
  

Thanks everyone in advance!

guess they were crap tenants. 

[Deleted User]

I'm not sure what is very unlucky about the situation. You had tenants for two years who whilst they were late on rent eventually paid ending the tenancy with no arrears. A dog which you did not know about has only caused damage to a sofa which was old and which you would like to replace with something brand new but make the tenants pay for this upgrade (No - this is about betterment). A toilet was broken and if you have done a proper inventory then the tenants will presumably have a deduction from their deposit. Lastly, there is now a void period.
It is all standard landlording.

pramsay13

Simply submit your claim to the deposit protection service and the tenants will submit their counterclaim. 
If they don't you will be awarded whatever the adjudicator thinks is fair from your information.
If they do submit their own arguments the adjudicator will weigh up the information and make a decision.
I'm not sure how a dog could wreck a sofa as you describe.
You could put a new throw over the sofa. It will look as good as new and save buying a new one each tenants.
£400 - £600 for a toilet repair sounds excessive. What is the issue?
Energy bills are the responsibility of the tenants (assuming your agreement doesn't indicate otherwise) although you will be responsible for the standing charges and any usage during the void period. You will need to sort dates and readings and provide as much information as you can to the energy company.

theartfullodger

Ever considered training in how to be a Landlord etc etc?  Joining NRLA?

[Deleted User]

I am just wondering how a toilet repair can cost £4-600 when a new one would cost half that?  What have the tenants done?

Hopefully you won't leave an expensive sofa another time.  Perhaps you overpaid and the leather was pvc/blend or not very good quality leather.., it usually only wears after considerable use.  If it is leather, it needs maintenance to keep it in good condition so probably not a good choice with certain tenants.  A dog wouldn't on its own cause the leather to fade.., tear yes, fade no.   How old was it when the tenants moved in?

Does the agency have photos to prove they visited every six months?  Fading to the sofa wouldn't just suddenly happen.  I wonder if they visited at all.

If they had a dog, you might want to look at defleaing the property as well.

To be honest, if I was you, I'd be making a personal visit to see what else they missed.  And they wouldn't be my agents any longer.

But yes, make a claim through the scheme you have protected the deposit through.  But I'd suggest a thorough inspection with your own eyes and nose first.

onwards&upwards

Dogs don't cause black leather sofas to go white.  Take it from someone who has had dogs and leather sofas for years and knows loads of other people who have to!  And none of us ever stopped the dogs going on the sofas or took any special precautions. 

Maybe it was just a poor quality sofa that had worn out?

trex227

onwards&upwards said:

Dogs don't cause black leather sofas to go white.  Take it from someone who has had dogs and leather sofas for years and knows loads of other people who have to!  And none of us ever stopped the dogs going on the sofas or took any special precautions. 

Maybe it was just a poor quality sofa that had worn out?

Exactly this. My MIL had leather sofas for over 20 years and dogs that were allowed on them. The leather itself had no wear as you describe, she got rid of the sofas due to the seams starting to split with age

greatcrested

ileven1225 said:

.......It was found that the tenant had a dog since day 1 but was never found by the estate agent .....

Any damage caused by the dog you can claim (though see below).

The leather sofa was completely worn out. 2 years ago the sofa had black leather and now it was completely in grey/white as all leather was worn off by the dog!

1) how old is the sofa? Do you understand 'betterment'? You cannot claim the cost of a brand new sofa to replace an old one. If sofa has an expected life of, say 12 years, and is now 6 years old, you can only claim for the 6 years you have lost (ie 50%).

2) you also cannot claim for 'fair wear and tear', only for 'damage'. If you can show the sofa was damaged by the dog, not just old/worn by usual use, you can claim.

The toilet was broken and the agent investigated the cause and concluded that it was due to tenant's fault.

Cannot comment without knowing what damage and how the tenants caused it.

The tenants now have already moved out and the Estate Agent informed the tenants that most of their deposits will be deducted.

Good.

No surprise the tenants disagreed the deduction and the only solution is the dispute in TDS. The issues still left to the landlord:

• The sofa needs to be replaced completely - Estate Agent told me that it is unlikely that the sofa would be paid in full by the tenants even they believe it was caused the tenant's dog. The sofa was £1500 and if lucky TDS would agree £100-200 maximum. It was due to TDS has normal wear and tear rule and they would not consider the sofa condition before the tenants moved in. They only consider sofa's age.  See above. I assume the agent has said £1-200 based o age of sofa etc....?
  
• The toilet needs to be repaired (£400-600) - Estate Agent told me that it is unlikely that TDS would agree the deduction at all. So they suggested that this repair would not be claimed and shown to TDS. Rdiculous! The agent has said (above) that the tenants caused the damage. Presumably they can prove this, so of course you should claim. Have you got (2? 3?) quotes from plumbers for either repair or replacement?
  
• The property was unoccupied for 5 weeks - not as bad as I expected, the agent did work hard to find new tenants, the finding new tenants process only started from the tenants moved out, nothing I could do anyway. I don't understand the issue. When tenants move out there is almost always a void period. Is the rent up to date? You do not say.
  
• The previous tenants disagreed with the deduction, however, they still haven't put the dispute to the TDS yet and it seems there is no further response from the tenants. I would like to solve this issue/dispute as soon as possible and even there is a little money but still help. It seems we could do nothing until the tenants put formal dispute in TDS and the waiting time could be years, which I was told by the estate agent. What's the problem? Until the tenants respond they will not get their deposit, so either they WILL respond/raise a dispute, or they willlose their deposit.....
• The tenants used a previous tenant's name registered electricity and the bill I found was £2000 in debt. However, I believe I was not responsible for this bill.  Whose name was on the account before their tenancy started? Did they move in the same day the previous tenants moved out? If not, presumably the account was in your name. If so, I also assume you read the meter when their tenancy started and closed your account? If the account transferred from tenant to tenant, why did the last tenant not close their account?
  
• The estate agent did not give much useful advice and I can only wait and wait, they told me that there is nothing more they could do. It seems all loss will be taken by the landlord, not the estate agent neither the tenants. It's your property, your tenancy, and the profits, and costs/losses are also yours. An agent simply assists you but ultimately you are responsible.

Make sure you have proper evidence of all the damage you wish to claim, plus evidence to show it was caused by the tenants.

Make sure you have proper professional written quotes to support the amounts you claim.

Do not exagerate your claim as this will simply alienate the arbitrator against you. The more reasonable you are, the more sympathetic they will be. eg DO allow for 'betterment' in your calculations.

Follow the scheme's process for claiming deductions - have you read it? Don't simply rely on your agent - it's your money/loss, not theirs!

You say ' the tenants moved out', but

* was that at the end of the fixed term?

* if not, did they serve proper notice? When? How much notice?

* Did they pay rent up to the date the tenancy ended (not the date they moved out)?

* are you alsoclaiming rent arrears?

Post 3: Deposits: Payment, Protection and Return.

Post 7: New landlords (1):advice & information :see links in next post

Post 8: New landlords (2): Essential links for further information

Post 9: Letting agents: how should a landlord select or sack?