My rights buying from a car dealer

Grumpy_chap

I do have some sympathy with the OP because "FSH" is reasonably interpreted by the lay person as meaning history that the vehicle was fully serviced in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendations. 

I think a garage would just say there is a full history of what servicing has been done, not that it is complete to the manufacturer's recommendations, this is more so as the car gets older.  This is the definition that I think has to be considered to apply.  Very few people actually sit down and check through the FSH paperwork before buying the car, and nor would most dealers make you feel comfortable if that was what you wished to do.

Timing belt is, unfortunately, probably not covered by the warranty unless it fails but that is not a strategy that can be recommended as it could end in the OP having no car or needing very expensive repairs and gambling whether they will be recovered.  

How did the price paid by the OP on a 2013 70k miles car compare with the equivalent from a main dealer?  If that saving is as much as getting the timing belt done, then the saving can now be put towards that work on the car.  Unfortunately, buying a 7-year old car, it is always likely that there has been some "skipping" on service items.

AdrianC

Grumpy_chap said:

Timing belt is, unfortunately, probably not covered by the warranty unless it fails but that is not a strategy that can be recommended as it could end in the OP having no car or needing very expensive repairs and gambling whether they will be recovered.  

Even then, I suspect the warranty would wash their hands of it, on the basis that it was entirely predictable and preventable by proper maintenance...

Ultimately, yes, "FSH" can be read two ways. Full, to-the-book. Or "Everything done"...

Grumpy_chap

I think the AA definition of FSH that the OP posted is a very reasonable one and one I really believed to be true until recently.

The new definition of "there is a full history of all the servicing that has been done on the car, it just so happens that is none" is a new twist and, dare I say it, mis-leading at best.

I do wonder, though, whether there is a age-of-vehicle point at which FSH converts from the AA meaning to meaningless?  If I was buying a 3-year old or less car from a main dealer, I would certainly expect that FSH meant the servicing all done to manufacturers own schedule.  Even that is open to interpretation - my Mum has a new car under a 'service plan' and the garage needing to do the work quibbles over the work required even though the schedule is clear.

I stopped trusting main dealers to be any better than back street garages when my Mondeo (07 plate) which I ensured did have a full service history at Ford and had the drive belt changes done by Ford.  This car died in 2011, just a fortnight after the drive belt was changed, as the drive belt failed and wrecked the engine.  Ford eventually came through and paid out, but the excuse was that the workshop "forgot" to write that work on the job card - they didn't "forget" to charge me though.

Certainly on an older car, it is general condition and immediate reliability that trumps anything else.  Since the example above, I have not paid more than £2k for a car and find overall reliability just as good as new cars, but more knocks, rattles, squeeks.  I run my car for a year pretty much irrespective of what mileage I cover in that time and then get an annual service from an independent garage and only ever fix if something is broken.  The only exception is the cam belt, which I did get done to 'save' the car.

I may, next time, drift away from the bangernomics as I would really like an electric car, Tesla or Mustang Mach-E.  I am rambling on, though. 

My advice to the OP is to get the belts changed and enjoy the car, not to expect anything back from the dealer (but no harm asking) and cover the cost of the maintenance from the saving in buying the car versus the same car from a main dealer.

onlyfoolsandparking

A real interesting thread, should have been titled 'when is a FSH a FSH' or something similar. In all the cars I have bought over the years I have always had the timing belt done as a 'first job/par for the course' just to give me peace of mind that the chances of it snapping are close to zero. Last one I had done cost me £250 inc water pump. 

Leah04x

Thanks all.
Obviously FSH can be, and has been in this case, misinterpreted. There really should be a proper legal definition, as that would help massively. 

I have called the dealer, but the salesman I dealt with was out on a test drive, so I am awaiting a call back. 

I realise this is partly due to my naivety, but I’ve always maintained my vehicles ‘to the book’ and when buying with FSH previously, the manufacturers schedule has been adhered to in full, so I didn’t expect anything less. 

Will update later

motorguy

Was the car specifically advertised with the words "full service history" and do you still have a copy or access to the advert?

If yes to both then i think i'd be going to the dealer and saying it hasnt a full history as there is no evidence of the belt being changed.  See what they say.  They may well offer to refund you on the car, do the work themselves, maybe meet you halfway on price or tell you no, its a full history of when the car has been serviced.

If you want to take it further then go down the full and proper route (documented online) of a Letter Before Action then pursue them through the small claims court.

Do this as per guidance via a trusted website - DONT go by Fred246s approach as you are not then following process and your case could be thrown out of court.

Leah04x

motorguy said:

Was the car specifically advertised with the words "full service history" and do you still have a copy or access to the advert?

If yes to both then i think i'd be going to the dealer and saying it hasnt a full history as there is no evidence of the belt being changed.  See what they say.  They may well offer to refund you on the car, do the work themselves, maybe meet you halfway on price or tell you no, its a full history of when the car has been serviced.

If you want to take it further then go down the full and proper route (documented online) of a Letter Before Action then pursue them through the small claims court.

Do this as per guidance via a trusted website - DONT go by Fred246s approach as you are not then following process and your case could be thrown out of court.

Yes, it was specifically worded ‘full service history’. I have evidence of this. So yes to both questions. 

I’d be even happy for a part payment to help towards costs, as I do realise I’m at fault here too. 

I’ve contacted them this morning and discussed it. The gentleman I spoke to needs to speak with the salesman involved and will get back to me later 🤞🤞

Grumpy_chap

I think I am changing my interpretation of "FSH" from "history of what has been done" as per my first response in this thread to "full history of service as per manufacturer guideline" - that matches the AA interpretation provided by the OP.  I do wonder whether it would be expected as a car gets older for "FSH" to have a less rigid interpretation though.

Leah04x

After speaking to them, they’ve agreed to fit it at their garage if I pay for the parts. Happy with this result considering the labour charge is more than double what the parts cost. 

Thank you all for your advice!