Legal advice regarding adult social care charges

macaroon9

I’m hoping there is someone out there who can help.

my mum passed away in May from coronavirus, she had terminal cancer and a list of other illnesses, so in her case it was a blessing as the virus took my mum before she deteriorated slowly from everything else.

my mum had a care agency go in 3 times a day, this was arranged by adult social services.  My mum had dementia and wasn’t taking her medication properly.  I wasn’t able to take on her care du3 to family and work commitments, but I did her shopping and cleaning etc.

from the outset there were issues, these were around medication not being collected so there were days when she had no meds, meals not being made, and 30 minute calls either not lasting for 30 minutes or at all in some cases.  I rang the agency, my mums social worker, anyone who would listen basically as well as sending emails.

in the weeks preceding my mums death some calls only lasted 5 minutes.  I made an official complaint to the agency after my mums death and safe guarding meetings have been held.  I had the response two days ago and I’m not happy with it at all.  The care agency have come back on all points and basicall6 adult social services have said none of my claims can be substantiated.  On the point I made regarding the length of calls they have replied that due to coronavirus call times were reduced but this was not made clear.  This point was not made full stop!  My mum paid a contribution to her care and I am getting bills now for April and May but I am reluctant to pay it.  I feel that they have committed fraud as they have taken money for a service which was not provided.  Please can anyone advise?  

Jeremy535897

Perhaps start here: https://www.cqc.org.uk/help-advice/your-stories/declare-your-care

gizmo111

Ask the local authority to investigate a S42 safeguarding investigation, and request all your mothers records from the Care Agency and the LA also. 
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2014/23/section/42/enacted
Decide what it is you want to achieve?

elsien

Did your mum's local authority have a Care Act easement in place? That would allow services to have been reduced but not below a safe level and you shouldn't be billed for services that weren't received.
Can I ask how you know the length of the calls and how short they were? Sometimes unfortunately there isn't the evidence to substantiate one way or the other.
A relative's pre-covid calls were sometimes not the half hour she paid for and at times were closer to 15 minutes but unless I happened to be there when they came we wouldn't have known.  

gary83

Firstly sorry for your loss. 

Your mothers death is obviously still very recent, it’s also bound to be an emotional subject, never an easy thing to deal with at the best of times your situation has been made worse by trying to handle this in the middle of an unprecedented pandemic.

 I don’t want to sound condescending but I think you need to think long and hard about how you handle such a sensitive subject, I think perhaps You need to take some time to decide what you want from this and how you want to handle it going forwards. Ask the local authority to investigate and explain by all means but don’t go in firing on all cylinders at first and using phrases like they’ve committed fraud - I know it’s much easier to say than do but you need to try and remove all the obvious and understandable emotion you feel towards the situation to try and establish the facts first.

macaroon9

elsien said:

Did your mum's local authority have a Care Act easement in place? That would allow services to have been reduced but not below a safe level and you shouldn't be billed for services that weren't received.
Can I ask how you know the length of the calls and how short they were? Sometimes unfortunately there isn't the evidence to substantiate one way or the other.
A relative's pre-covid calls were sometimes not the half hour she paid for and at times were closer to 15 minutes but unless I happened to be there when they came we wouldn't have known.  

I know how short they were as they were in the log book which I have copies of.  I had also been there at times when they weren’t then when I’ve checked the log book it has been back filled.  For example I was there between 10 and 4 on Mother’s Day and no one came which I raised with the agency, when I went the following day the log book had been filled in to say that someone had been there at 11 and 2:30.  I raised this with adult social care and they spoke to the care manager who said they’d Put a system in place Where the carers would have to check in and out using by phoning in to the office, but my mum paid for those calls even though they didn’t happen.  My mum paid for 4, 30 minute calls a day but didn’t receive those calls.

elsien

Formal complaint then to the care agency and the local authority. 

macaroon9

elsien said:

Did your mum's local authority have a Care Act easement in place? That would allow services to have been reduced but not below a safe level and you shouldn't be billed for services that weren't received.
Can I ask how you know the length of the calls and how short they were? Sometimes unfortunately there isn't the evidence to substantiate one way or the other.
A relative's pre-covid calls were sometimes not the half hour she paid for and at times were closer to 15 minutes but unless I happened to be there when they came we wouldn't have known.  

I knew the length of the calls as the log book was left at my mums.  The time they arrived and supposedly left was registered in the book, so I know who went p, when they arrived and left.  On the four days before my mum went into hospital she had four calls per day amountin* to 2 hours per day, when I checked the longest call she had was 45 minutes.....that’s in a day across all 4 visits.  That’s less than 12 minutes per call!  This happened all the time.  On the Saturday before  Mother’s Day I was at my mums from 10:30 until 3:45, there were no calls.  I rang the agency at 7pm to ask when callers had been and was told 11am and 1:30, unless they had borrowed Harry potters invisibility cloak they weren’t there.  I went to my mums at 8 and checked the log book It had been filled in for 10:45 and 3, I was at the house then and no one had been, the log book had been filled in by whoever had been for the evening call.

macaroon9

gary83 said:

Firstly sorry for your loss. 

Your mothers death is obviously still very recent, it’s also bound to be an emotional subject, never an easy thing to deal with at the best of times your situation has been made worse by trying to handle this in the middle of an unprecedented pandemic.

 I don’t want to sound condescending but I think you need to think long and hard about how you handle such a sensitive subject, I think perhaps You need to take some time to decide what you want from this and how you want to handle it going forwards. Ask the local authority to investigate and explain by all means but don’t go in firing on all cylinders at first and using phrases like they’ve committed fraud - I know it’s much easier to say than do but you need to try and remove all the obvious and understandable emotion you feel towards the situation to try and establish the facts first.

It’s been 3 months now since my mums death and whilst I appreciate the go in all cylinders theory this is actually about a lot more than the anger at my mums death.  I do not hold the care agency responsible for my mums death, an email to say they messed up won’t ease the sadness that I feel.  However at the end of the day I have emails dating back to December raising concerns about this agency, short calls, not carrying out duties that they were essentially being paid for.  Now despite living alone my mum had me, so when things cropped up I was in the phone, emailing, writing letters etc.  In the end it proved pointless I was constantlly given assurances that things would change, carers would phone in and out so call times could be logged....they weren’t, a to do list would be put in my mums file....it wasn’t, carers would be consistent so my mum could build up a relationship with them.....they weren’t.  Medication wasn’t collected so my mum went three days without her medication, carers were sent that had no idea that my mum had dementia, kidney failure, terminal cancer, COPD.  Carers rang me outside her home not able to get in because they hadn’t been given the code for the door, carers rang from inside the house because they didn’t know the code for the medicine safe.  One carer threw a banana at my mum and said here’s your breakfast.  Every time something happened I complained, I asked for her care to be given over to another agency.  My mum had me and I still achieved nothing.  Now, what happens to all those dementia patients out there that don’t have a daughter, a husband, a friend, who have no one.  What’s happening with them?  Are they even visiting them daily?  Are they charging them for two hours of care a day and actually only going once a week?  On the top of my poll tax bill it says a percentage of my bill is given to adult social services, did some of my money pay for not only the care agency who left my mum gasping for breath that morning, are they using my money to pay the wage of someone in adult social services who thinks it’s acceptable to visit someone for five minutes she; that person has paid for 30?  As a council tax payer would you be happy knowing that your poll tax was paying for a company like that.  I can substantiate every single one of my claims, I have notes from district nurses saying my mum couldn’t hear, apparently my mum spoke to the care manager on the phone saying she was fine on that morning.  I have copies of log books detailing short call times, I have emails, letters, photographs and yet they say they can’t substantiate my claims.  So yes I will use terms like fraud, neglect, cover ups, failure in their duty of care.