Bitcoin

natalieshaw

Hi I would like to get some information on bitcoin
1 is it safe
2 what do you need to do and how 
Thank you
natalie

grumiofoundation

1) No
2) That there is a good chance you will lose your money

MarkCarnage

It's about as safe as tulip bulbs in 17th Century Holland. 
There are many different ways to lose your money on it. Some will keep your 'coins' more secure than others, but ultimately the question is would you be comfortable with:

1) The certainty of high volatility
2) The high probability that you will see significant falls in the 'value' of them
3) The possibility, maybe probability that you will lose all or almost all your money. 

83705628

natalieshaw said:

Hi I would like to get some information on bitcoin
1 is it safe
2 what do you need to do and how 
Thank you
natalie

/
1. No, it's not a proper investment and frought with scams, criminals, and gambling addicts.
2. Avoid it like the plague, learn about investing properly via a stocks & shares ISA and/or SIPP and /or buy to let property (plenty of info on here or online generally).

Also, while we're on the subject, these are proper investments:
1. Cash in a bank account pays interest.
2. Investing in bonds pays interest (proper bonds, not bonds you heard about on a social media ad).
3. Investing in shares pays dividends, or may pay dividends in future, and may increase in value over time.
4. Investing in property pays rent and may increase in value over time.

These are NOT real investments:
1. Gambling
2. Gold, silver, any precious metal - because you have to pay a bank vault to keep it safe.
3. Wine, art, the football stock market, classic cars, "leasing construction equipment for guaranteed safe 25% returns in China", Jewellery, rare collectibles, rare pokemon cards, vintage shoes etc.

And remember the 2 golden rules: if it advertises itself on social media, or if it's not mentioned somewhere on this website, it's almost certainly a scam.

MarkCarnage

These are NOT real investments:
1. Gambling
2. Gold, silver, any precious metal - because you have to pay a bank vault to keep it safe.
3. Wine, art, the football stock market, classic cars, "leasing construction equipment for guaranteed safe 25% returns in China", Jewellery, rare collectibles, rare pokemon cards, vintage shoes etc.

Agree re 1. 

Gold via properly regulated funds is I think a 'real' investment and good diversifier in times like now, though only in moderation. The lack of income argument is weaker now that cash rates are close to zero.

Sort of agree re 3, in that you may be a collector because you like these things, and may make money on it, possibly a lot if you're lucky, and it's popular, but it shouldn't be part of your investment portfolio per se. I exclude the 'leasing construction equipment/storage pods/car park spaces' scams of course. 

83705628

MarkCarnage said:

These are NOT real investments:
1. Gambling
2. Gold, silver, any precious metal - because you have to pay a bank vault to keep it safe.
3. Wine, art, the football stock market, classic cars, "leasing construction equipment for guaranteed safe 25% returns in China", Jewellery, rare collectibles, rare pokemon cards, vintage shoes etc.

Agree re 1. 

Gold via properly regulated funds is I think a 'real' investment and good diversifier in times like now, though only in moderation. The lack of income argument is weaker now that cash rates are close to zero.

Sort of agree re 3, in that you may be a collector because you like these things, and may make money on it, possibly a lot if you're lucky, and it's popular, but it shouldn't be part of your investment portfolio per se. I exclude the 'leasing construction equipment/storage pods/car park spaces' scams of course. 

/
Gold is not an investment at all, it's not a diversifier (Bogle and Buffett have both said this, Pensioncraft has studied it in detail). If gold is a real investment, then anything can be considered an investment.

Collectibles are fine if that's your thing, your business, but be clear that it's trading, it's a business of making or buying something to sell it, antique dealers do it, wine merchants do it, car sales businesses do it. That's a trading business. There are people who buy coin collections from the Royal Min expecting them to increase in value over time simply by virtue of being rare or a finite resource or 'nice to look at', this is, obviously illogical.

MarkCarnage

Gold is not an investment at all, it's not a diversifier (Bogle and Buffett have both said this, Pensioncraft has studied it in detail). If gold is a real investment, then anything can be considered an investment.

I am not a gold bug, never have been, never will be. However, I have included gold, directly (via bullion ETF) and indirectly (via WP investment trusts) in the last year. It's not necessarily an asset I would feel the need to hold indefinitely, or as a permanent portfolio constituent, but it has proved to be a valuable diversifier in certain situations. With fiat currency being devalued, and crypto not being anything like a serious option in my view, gold has some attractions right now. 

Plenty of others have said differently to those whom you quote on this, Ray Dalio for one. Therefore I will modify my original answer to note that it can be a very good tactical diversfier, at  a time of low and/or falling real yields,  but the timeframe of its usefulness could easily be several years. 

I think there's a difference between being a collector of things like art, wine etc and a trader. Apart from anything else, the transaction costs are quite high, very high in the case of art. I collect wine, drink most of it, but have sold some. There are many wines which have made their owners a lot of money, and many that haven't. I don't buy it with a view to selling it, but have sold on occasion, particularly where the wine has become fashionable with a cult following and the market price has gone up disproportionately. I have therefore been able to sell some and drink the rest for free effectively, but I don't ever expect to that when buying it. 

83705628

MarkCarnage said:

Gold is not an investment at all, it's not a diversifier (Bogle and Buffett have both said this, Pensioncraft has studied it in detail). If gold is a real investment, then anything can be considered an investment.

I am not a gold bug, never have been, never will be. However, I have included gold, directly (via bullion ETF) and indirectly (via WP investment trusts) in the last year. It's not necessarily an asset I would feel the need to hold indefinitely, or as a permanent portfolio constituent, but it has proved to be a valuable diversifier in certain situations. With fiat currency being devalued, and crypto not being anything like a serious option in my view, gold has some attractions right now. 

Plenty of others have said differently to those whom you quote on this, Ray Dalio for one. Therefore I will modify my original answer to note that it can be a very good tactical diversfier, at  a time of low and/or falling real yields,  but the timeframe of its usefulness could easily be several years. 

I think there's a difference between being a collector of things like art, wine etc and a trader. Apart from anything else, the transaction costs are quite high, very high in the case of art. I collect wine, drink most of it, but have sold some. There are many wines which have made their owners a lot of money, and many that haven't. I don't buy it with a view to selling it, but have sold on occasion, particularly where the wine has become fashionable with a cult following and the market price has gone up disproportionately. I have therefore been able to sell some and drink the rest for free effectively, but I don't ever expect to that when buying it. 

/
On the serious subject of gold, Pensioncraft has 2 excruciatingly detailed videos about gold explaining why, as an 'investment' it really doesn't work to do any of the things it is often touted as doing.
https://youtu.be/PTZ3qAYwYAE
https://youtu.be/9qCmkr60JNM