Do i need a China fund in my portfolio??

Linton

I want to hold around 10% China in my growth portfolio.  It does not make sense to ignore it when it is such a major player globally.
My problem is dicovering what the actual % is as China is often simply included as part of Emerging Markets.  Morningstar just includes China in "Emerging Asia Ex 4 Tigers" along with India despite the 4 Tigers term having long passed its sell-by date.  Trustnet is inconsistent, sometimes explicitly giving China at one extreme and at the other just including it in EM.  I may buy a China fund just to be sure where my money is going.

firestone

Might be worth a look but its proposed that Witan Pacific IT i to have a new outlook and manager and become Baillie Gifford China IT - at what seems quite an interesting time in World affairs to do it

csgohan4

firestone said:

Might be worth a look but its proposed that Witan Pacific IT i to have a new outlook and manager and become Baillie Gifford China IT - at what seems quite an interesting time in World affairs to do it

not sure why, but alot of my short listed funds are by BG, they seem to do well and tick alot of the diversification boxes for me

Maybe they have good fund managers. 

SMT being one of them and we know how their doing

Thrugelmir

Buy an ETF that covers the Hong Kong index. Chinese companies are pulling US listings and planned IPO's on US markets. The importance of HK as a global financial centre is going to grow. 

coachman12

I agree with most of the comments above by nearly all posters.
But there is an issue which no-one on this Forum has raised----and that is the whole question of "ethical" or "conscience" investing.  Back in the day, MSE would (or should) have had a whole Forum dedicated to the evils of apartheid and a recommendation to boycott all SA  products, let alone invest in companies which were based on exploitation and violence and oppression (and no, for the benefit of some of MSE's "finest", I bought no Krugerrands during apartheid).
I regard the Beijing regime as one of the most evil dangers to the world and our way of life in the western world. I do not have to prove the use of forced labour ; monks and nuns used to work in factories and tortured just because they are peace-loving people who do not believe in the CCP; the destruction of a whole enviable culture, religion and language; forced sterilisation and the worst forms of life imprisonment for merely being caught in possession of a photo of The Dalai Lama. All the facts have been strewn over the media for 30 years before the internet existed and ever since it has been available, published in Hansard for just as long and been the subject of many many UN Resolutions ( though becoming less and less as China's insidious exponential power grows----though the recent outrages in the Xinjiang camps to "reducate" Uighurs  and the violation of the Hong Kong Agreement with the UK has once more tweaked the UN's pitiful conscience and the world's condemnation). 
I do not knowingly buy Chinese products ( though I cannot know whether the Chinese have been involved somewhere along the road to retail sale). The same goes for any shares in my large portfolio which  I KNOW to have Chinese connections.
I was extremely happy with my account with Credit Suisse, and had a really helpful and close relationship with my Personal Manager at the Bank ( or my "Relationship Manager" to use the pretentious title that was used by the bank). But I walked away to another Swiss Bank about 18 months ago after a Credit Suisse scandal which involved giving preferential treatment to Chinese in their Pacific Rim area of activity----which you'll be relieved to know I will not  set out in detail here.
OK-----it's "open-season" for all the " let's rubbish coachman" cabal. Have fun and forget the unimaginable suffering that I have outlined above.

grumiofoundation

coachman12 said:

I agree with most of the comments above by nearly all posters.
But there is an issue which no-one on this Forum has raised----and that is the whole question of "ethical" or "conscience" investing.  Back in the day, MSE would (or should) have had a whole Forum dedicated to the evils of apartheid and a recommendation to boycott all SA  products, let alone invest in companies which were based on exploitation and violence and oppression (and no, for the benefit of some of MSE's "finest", I bought no Krugerrands during apartheid).
I regard the Beijing regime as one of the most evil dangers to the world and our way of life in the western world. I do not have to prove the use of forced labour ; monks and nuns used to work in factories and tortured just because they are peace-loving people who do not believe in the CCP; the destruction of a whole enviable culture, religion and language; forced sterilisation and the worst forms of life imprisonment for merely being caught in possession of a photo of The Dalai Lama. All the facts have been strewn over the media for 30 years before the internet existed and ever since it has been available, published in Hansard for just as long and been the subject of many many UN Resolutions ( though becoming less and less as China's insidious exponential power grows----though the recent outrages in the Xinjiang camps to "reducate" Uighurs  and the violation of the Hong Kong Agreement with the UK has once more tweaked the UN's pitiful conscience and the world's condemnation). 
I do not knowingly buy Chinese products ( though I cannot know whether the Chinese have been involved somewhere along the road to retail sale). The same goes for any shares in my large portfolio which  I KNOW to have Chinese connections.
I was extremely happy with my account with Credit Suisse, and had a really helpful and close relationship with my Personal Manager at the Bank ( or my "Relationship Manager" to use the pretentious title that was used by the bank). But I walked away to another Swiss Bank about 18 months ago after a Credit Suisse scandal which involved giving preferential treatment to Chinese in their Pacific Rim area of activity----which you'll be relieved to know I will not  set out in detail here.

 I guess that is one of the problems people face, Chinese companies and products are so ingrained in society that avoiding them is near impossible, maybe some people think it is near-impossible to achieve and therefore not worth it? (Im not in any way supporting this but you can see why people might take that view.) As you say with companies, you may invest in company A, which buys a product from company B which sources raw materials from chinese factory C.

I think (?) I asked you on another thread how you picked/avoided companies with direct/indirect chinese connections, and how easy/difficult this is? (Although likely a member of the anti-coachman cabal I was genuinely interested to know). 

I was a baby when apartheid ended so I have no first-hand knowledge but I guess it was somewhat 'easier' to avoid South African products/companies (although maybe not companies/companies or that invested in SA?) as they were less integral to the global economy that China is today? Although with more information easily available now maybe this is actually not the case?

coachman12 said:

I regard the Beijing regime as one of the most evil dangers to the world and our way of life in the western world.

I assume you mean democracy, free-speech and human rights but playing devils advocate for a second when you say this someone might question what really worries you - is it the human rights abuses or the fact that China threatens our 'western way of life' ? I am sure many people in 'white' south africa or pre-civl rights america used the same term to defend apartheid, segregation and slavery. 

.coachman12 said:
OK-----it's "open-season" for all the " let's rubbish coachman" cabal. Have fun and forget the unimaginable suffering that I have outlined above.

You had to ruin an interesting to read post didn't you. 

Thrugelmir

coachman12 said:

OK-----it's "open-season" for all the " let's rubbish coachman" cabal. Have fun and forget the unimaginable suffering that I have outlined above.

Is US business culture ethical ? Treatment of employees is shocking, discrimination is rife. As if the USA is still an emerging market. While not wishing to generalise as have many friends over the pond. There's a significant minority that in their dealings come across as nothing more than objectionable. 

csgohan4

politics should be left in the money savers arms, ethical or not, that is your own personal choice. This is discussing hard cold investments and to dismiss ethical practices may limit your own financial diversity and outcome at your own cost

bigadaj

It's all very well to say politics should ne excluded but you certainly can't when it comes to china. My main concern in china investing is political, primarily the lack of corporate governance, corruption, one party state and government control of major companies and sectors. That's excluding the issues around hong kong, us trade war, human rights, health and safety etc etc, just can't be ignored.

Thrugelmir

csgohan4 said:

politics should be left in the money savers arms, ethical or not, that is your own personal choice. This is discussing hard cold investments and to dismiss ethical practices may limit your own financial diversity and outcome at your own cost

Political risk has to be considered when investing. Be foolish not to, if one is investing overseas.