Am I required to pay £120 to my landlord for a new hob?

greatcrested

Petriix said:

It's highly debatable what the expected lifespan of a hob should be. It would be a reasonable argument to suggest that, if it is outside warranty then it could be expected to fail at any time. If it was brand new then the faulty knob should be replaced by the manufacturer.

I would challenge the landlord to provide proof of the age and cost of the hob with a receipt for the purchase and/or installation. Depending on the response I would then suggest that they make a claim under warranty or accept that it was outside its expected life. At most you could agree to cover a portion of the repair or replacement cost commensurate with the age of the hob. 

So when I bought my brand new Golf which came with a 3 year warranty, I should expect to have to scrap it in the 37th month?!

There is a long history of legal case law defining the reasonable expected lifespan of any individual product. This is dependant on multiple factors including the type of product, price paid, whether that price is at/near the top or bottom in relation to comparable products, and many other factors (read the case law).

But one factor which is quite definately not relevant is the length of the warranty.

shaun_from_Africa

rarahsus said:b

Looking online at the same model we have found the hob for just £99 brand new.

Can the broken knob be replaced easily?
If so, it might be worth looking on ebay and Gumtree to see if anyone local to you is selling a hob of the same model and if you can get one, just swop one of the knobs over. If you are lucky enough to find one, you may get it for a fraction of the £120 that your landlord is after.
What is the make and model of the job in question?

Petriix

greatcrested said:

Petriix said:

It's highly debatable what the expected lifespan of a hob should be. It would be a reasonable argument to suggest that, if it is outside warranty then it could be expected to fail at any time. If it was brand new then the faulty knob should be replaced by the manufacturer.

I would challenge the landlord to provide proof of the age and cost of the hob with a receipt for the purchase and/or installation. Depending on the response I would then suggest that they make a claim under warranty or accept that it was outside its expected life. At most you could agree to cover a portion of the repair or replacement cost commensurate with the age of the hob. 

So when I bought my brand new Golf which came with a 3 year warranty, I should expect to have to scrap it in the 37th month?!

There is a long history of legal case law defining the reasonable expected lifespan of any individual product. This is dependant on multiple factors including the type of product, price paid, whether that price is at/near the top or bottom in relation to comparable products, and many other factors (read the case law).

But one factor which is quite definately not relevant is the length of the warranty.

My point is that, where a product fails during normal use, there is no liability to the tenant to repair or replace it. If the manufacturer can claim that it is no longer expected to keep working then there is no way that a tenant could be held liable for something breaking; in fact it's normally the opposite: the landlord would normally be expected to keep a rented home in good condition and repair any built in appliances should they break. Or would you expect the tenant to be responsible for replacing the boiler of it broke down?

A much better analogy would be of you rented a 3 year old Golf and it broke down. You would be seeking a replacement vehicle from the hire company rather than expecting a bill.

greatcrested

Petriix said:

greatcrested said:

Petriix said:

It's highly debatable what the expected lifespan of a hob should be. It would be a reasonable argument to suggest that, if it is outside warranty then it could be expected to fail at any time. If it was brand new then the faulty knob should be replaced by the manufacturer.

I would challenge the landlord to provide proof of the age and cost of the hob with a receipt for the purchase and/or installation. Depending on the response I would then suggest that they make a claim under warranty or accept that it was outside its expected life. At most you could agree to cover a portion of the repair or replacement cost commensurate with the age of the hob. 

So when I bought my brand new Golf which came with a 3 year warranty, I should expect to have to scrap it in the 37th month?!

There is a long history of legal case law defining the reasonable expected lifespan of any individual product. This is dependant on multiple factors including the type of product, price paid, whether that price is at/near the top or bottom in relation to comparable products, and many other factors (read the case law).

But one factor which is quite definately not relevant is the length of the warranty.

A much better analogy would be of you rented a 3 year old Golf and it broke down. You would be seeking a replacement vehicle from the hire company rather than expecting a bill.

No. The issue here is whether the knob was damaged by the tenant or was fair wear and tear. That determines where the liability lies.

So, now that we've dismissed the warranty as having relevance, and if we must continue the Golf analogy (I'm regretting trying to shoehorn it into this debate!) it might be that you leased a Golf for 3 years with servicing /breakdown cover, but failed to ever check /top up the oil which caused the breakdown. Most contracts would require you to undertake basic weekly maintenance, just a tenancy agreement requires the tenant to act in a 'tenant-like manner', and failure to do so can result in liability.

Petriix

greatcrested said:

Petriix said:

greatcrested said:

Petriix said:

It's highly debatable what the expected lifespan of a hob should be. It would be a reasonable argument to suggest that, if it is outside warranty then it could be expected to fail at any time. If it was brand new then the faulty knob should be replaced by the manufacturer.

I would challenge the landlord to provide proof of the age and cost of the hob with a receipt for the purchase and/or installation. Depending on the response I would then suggest that they make a claim under warranty or accept that it was outside its expected life. At most you could agree to cover a portion of the repair or replacement cost commensurate with the age of the hob. 

So when I bought my brand new Golf which came with a 3 year warranty, I should expect to have to scrap it in the 37th month?!

There is a long history of legal case law defining the reasonable expected lifespan of any individual product. This is dependant on multiple factors including the type of product, price paid, whether that price is at/near the top or bottom in relation to comparable products, and many other factors (read the case law).

But one factor which is quite definately not relevant is the length of the warranty.

A much better analogy would be of you rented a 3 year old Golf and it broke down. You would be seeking a replacement vehicle from the hire company rather than expecting a bill.

No. The issue here is whether the knob was damaged by the tenant or was fair wear and tear. That determines where the liability lies.

So, now that we've dismissed the warranty as having relevance, and if we must continue the Golf analogy (I'm regretting trying to shoehorn it into this debate!) it might be that you leased a Golf for 3 years with servicing /breakdown cover, but failed to ever check /top up the oil which caused the breakdown. Most contracts would require you to undertake basic weekly maintenance, just a tenancy agreement requires the tenant to act in a 'tenant-like manner', and failure to do so can result in liability.

You're missing the third possibility which would be a manufacturing defect (which is where the relevance of the warranty comes in). If the hob was new then I would be urging the landlord to approach the manufacturer for a replacement part; if outside warranty I would be claiming fair wear and tear. The OP has clearly stated that they were cleaning the hob, so nothing negligent or sufficient to cause damage. The onus would be on the landlord to prove the value and condition of the hob and that the tenant had caused the damage. Making a clear assertion that you aren't accepting liability and requesting proof of loss is often enough to put off the chancers and ripoff merchants.

nyermen

One thing Im unclear - most hobs, the knob is a plastic piece with a hole, and the metal "lever" from the cooker connects into it.  Is it the plastic part, or the metal part that has broken?
£120 for a plastic part isn't just betterment, it sounds like profiteering when a replacement can be sourced.
£120 towards a new hob because the metal part is broken (likely unrepairable), is more likely betterment since it sounds a large contribution to replacing a very old hob with a new one (depending on type / etc).

For note - I had an "all in one free standing" hob and oven unit at the last place I rented.  It was ancient (I'd say 20 years or so), with the "settings" rubbed off (markings etc) over time. I'd argue that if the temperature marks have worn, then it may not be a surprise that the knobs are similarly old (plastic does perish over time), and therefore it is wear and tear.  Equally, if it had been my fault, then - including delivery, scrapping of old unit, gas etc connections, then £120 may be high (for age) but not so surprising.

[Deleted User]

Petriix said:

greatcrested said:

Petriix said:

greatcrested said:

Petriix said:

It's highly debatable what the expected lifespan of a hob should be. It would be a reasonable argument to suggest that, if it is outside warranty then it could be expected to fail at any time. If it was brand new then the faulty knob should be replaced by the manufacturer.

I would challenge the landlord to provide proof of the age and cost of the hob with a receipt for the purchase and/or installation. Depending on the response I would then suggest that they make a claim under warranty or accept that it was outside its expected life. At most you could agree to cover a portion of the repair or replacement cost commensurate with the age of the hob. 

So when I bought my brand new Golf which came with a 3 year warranty, I should expect to have to scrap it in the 37th month?!

There is a long history of legal case law defining the reasonable expected lifespan of any individual product. This is dependant on multiple factors including the type of product, price paid, whether that price is at/near the top or bottom in relation to comparable products, and many other factors (read the case law).

But one factor which is quite definately not relevant is the length of the warranty.

A much better analogy would be of you rented a 3 year old Golf and it broke down. You would be seeking a replacement vehicle from the hire company rather than expecting a bill.

No. The issue here is whether the knob was damaged by the tenant or was fair wear and tear. That determines where the liability lies.

So, now that we've dismissed the warranty as having relevance, and if we must continue the Golf analogy (I'm regretting trying to shoehorn it into this debate!) it might be that you leased a Golf for 3 years with servicing /breakdown cover, but failed to ever check /top up the oil which caused the breakdown. Most contracts would require you to undertake basic weekly maintenance, just a tenancy agreement requires the tenant to act in a 'tenant-like manner', and failure to do so can result in liability.

You're missing the third possibility which would be a manufacturing defect (which is where the relevance of the warranty comes in). If the hob was new then I would be urging the landlord to approach the manufacturer for a replacement part; if outside warranty I would be claiming fair wear and tear. The OP has clearly stated that they were cleaning the hob, so nothing negligent or sufficient to cause damage. The onus would be on the landlord to prove the value and condition of the hob and that the tenant had caused the damage. Making a clear assertion that you aren't accepting liability and requesting proof of loss is often enough to put off the chancers and ripoff merchants.

A professional attending should be able to comment on fault in the first instance and provide a quote for parts and labour. 
The other dials still in working order will be a source for comparison.
Not really sure what all the discussion is about warranties, but given the fact that they are invariably 1 year, and that they can be extended, they are arbitrary in nature, therefore not indicative of how something should last or a cliff edge.

Grumpy_chap

Why didn't the OP just replace the knob?

maisie_cat

A complete replacement knob set shouldn't cost much, the landlord is a cheeky so & so but it really isn't worth arguing over. Just buy a new set and put them on the day you leave.

Crumble2018

E-spares sell sets of universal knobs that will fit most hobs.  Ours were grotty when we moved into our flat - we replaced the lot for about £12.