Are Ryanair liable if their advisors give incorrect information

KM_1978

I had booked a holiday in January 2020 for August 2020, flights with Ryanair all paid and 50% deposit paid on accommodation with Airbnb. Before our balance was due with Airbnb at the beginning of July 2020 we contacted Airbnb to see if we could get our deposit back (one of the travelers had been ill and has since been diagnosed with covid, thankfully recovering well) Airbnb said yes we could have a full refund after providing evidence. When I contacted Ryanair and before I could even get to the detail with their advisor, they informed me that as my return flight had a last schedule flight time change of more than 2 hours and was booked before May 2020 I was able to get a full refund anyway (to add.. they had changed the return flight three times by this point, one of which was more than 3 hours and at no point did I click the link to accept any) They confirmed I was able to cancel/refund and even offered to put a note on the system. At this point we were still waiting for Airbnb to confirm by email the refund. When they did a few days later, I went back to Ryanair and the next advisor said yes I could get the full refund and would action immediately with the usual funds will take x days to return. Great I thought, good customer service all round.

Fast forward a few weeks..

I notice on my Ryanair dashboard the flights for Aug. I contact Ryanair and they say yes your flights haven't been cancelled and are still going ahead. I explain the above and they say no, If its under 3 hours then no refund. I again explain above, then include all the saved bot chat transcripts and still they say no. To be clear, at this point I thought I was contacting them again out of courtesy..no one had got back and said we've made a mistake. 

So as it stands I have £1400 of flights that I cant use and they're not even willing to give me vouchers and left me feeling that I have no other options.. any ideas on where to go next with this?

Regards

Caz3121

you had a thread here already https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6170026/ryanair-computer-says-no#latest
your question should be....if they changed the rules from 2 hours to 3 hours between booking and now, should the rules when you booked be honoured or it is based on the rules when you make the request?
when booked it was 2 hours for right to refund. Currently it is 3 hours for right to refund.
(it seems like the advisor believed that it was based on when you booked)

What would you have done differently if the advisor had told you on the initial call that you had no right to any refund?

KM_1978

Thanks Caz, yes the original chat got kind of hijacked by another unrelated question so I though i'd try and be more specific with my header.  

What I would have done different was pursue the travel insurance I guess but that shouldn't be the fallback for Ryanair in my opinion. 

[Deleted User]

Where are you supposed to be flying to?   As it is in August and the flights are going ahead, could you rebook the AirBnB you cancelled or find another one?    (ignore me if you've already covered this some place)  

KM_1978

Tedber said:

Where are you supposed to be flying to?   As it is in August and the flights are going ahead, could you rebook the AirBnB you cancelled or find another one?    (ignore me if you've already covered this some place)  

Croatia,it was a group trip, 70% of which wont be travelling now as recovering from covid. I would have expected them to offer me vouchers at the very least but as it stands its take the flights or lose the money which just sits badly after being told we could have the full refund twice

bagand96

In theory they should honour the T&Cs under which you booked. Whether or not they were materially different back in January or not, I don’t know. Today, the T&Cs just refer to a “significant” schedule change, the wording may have been the same back in January anyway. 

However, you have been told you could have a refund and indeed requested one. Assuming you have proof of this it could help you. In the first instance I would get in touch with Ryanair one more time and chase your refund. If they still refuse two suggestions;

Credit card: try a chargeback or Section 75 on the grounds that Ryanair owe you a refund, and indeed agreed to it, but now have changed their mind.  Not 100% sure it would work but you’ve nothing to lose. Bank would likely ask for evidence etc. 

Legal: Try and nudge them by writing a letter before action (LBA) threatening court action. Send it snail mail, signed for.  This basically says if you don’t settle this, I will pursue legally through the courts. Include your proof from your chats. It might be enough to get them to refund.  If they still don’t you could consider actually proceeding with the court small claims. However I don’t know how strong your case would be legally.  Another complication is Ryanair are Irish so the court route is slightly more complicated - I’m no expert on these things I’m afraid. 

Finally, there’s travel insurance. There may be a time limit on claims so it’s worth talking to them in parallel with trying to claw this back from Ryanair.

KM_1978

bagand96 said:

In theory they should honour the T&Cs under which you booked. Whether or not they were materially different back in January or not, I don’t know. Today, the T&Cs just refer to a “significant” schedule change, the wording may have been the same back in January anyway. 

However, you have been told you could have a refund and indeed requested one. Assuming you have proof of this it could help you. In the first instance I would get in touch with Ryanair one more time and chase your refund. If they still refuse two suggestions;

Credit card: try a chargeback or Section 75 on the grounds that Ryanair owe you a refund, and indeed agreed to it, but now have changed their mind.  Not 100% sure it would work but you’ve nothing to lose. Bank would likely ask for evidence etc. 

Legal: Try and nudge them by writing a letter before action (LBA) threatening court action. Send it snail mail, signed for.  This basically says if you don’t settle this, I will pursue legally through the courts. Include your proof from your chats. It might be enough to get them to refund.  If they still don’t you could consider actually proceeding with the court small claims. However I don’t know how strong your case would be legally.  Another complication is Ryanair are Irish so the court route is slightly more complicated - I’m no expert on these things I’m afraid. 

Finally, there’s travel insurance. There may be a time limit on claims so it’s worth talking to them in parallel with trying to claw this back from Ryanair.

Thank you, 
Funny enough I have just spoke to my travel insurance and they said to try the section 75 also as that would potentially cover the whole purchase. My own travel insurance would only cover my percentage of the flights and we'd have to get the other parties to claim theirs which I guess is good to have more options but all subject to further excess etc.  The problem with the travel insurance option at the moment seems to be that I would have to actually cancel my flights and I'm loathed to do this in case I remove any further arguments. I don't want to give them any more reasons to not honor their original offering if you get my thinking..i.e you cancelled so  no refund. I cant think how they could but their strategies seem so underhand and based on technicalities rather than doing the right thing I just don't know what to do for the best!

Caz3121

If the flights are operating then I would expect S75 to fail.
this article from MSE in Feb 2019 states 3 hours for Ryanair "significant change" 
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel/flight-changes/
Are the flights still showing in your manage my booking? (you could hope for cancellation nearer to the time)

KM_1978

Yes flights still showing..that was my plan. If nothing to lose then cxl really last minute. So that really confuses me..I wonder why the original and subsequent advisors were so sure I could cancel and refund for two hours and then morally should I try and hold them to a mistake..not something I would normally do but they don't seem to think twice and are offering no middle ground i.e vouchers

mattyprice4004

Just my 2p, in the call centres I've worked at if we made a mistake in our advice then we wouldn't be held responsible - we'd apologise, offer some kind of goodwill if warranted but we wouldn't be obliged to actually follow through on the incorrect information. 

KM_1978

mattyprice4004 said:

Just my 2p, in the call centres I've worked at if we made a mistake in our advice then we wouldn't be held responsible - we'd apologise, offer some kind of goodwill if warranted but we wouldn't be obliged to actually follow through on the incorrect information. 

Thanks Matty, and yes I get that, we all make mistakes and I'd like to think i'm a fair person. Lets remember this was two advisors giving the same advice so I'm just suspicious on this and also as the flight was moved so many times, like I said one of the changes was by more than 3 hours and then almost immediately  moved it again by just under so I was thinking then that it looked odd which is why I never clicked on their link to accept changes. The first two advisors were adamant that I was entitled to cancel and refund, I have all the copies of the conversations. But anyway all that aside you would have thought good customer service would be to offer at the very least a way to use the flights another time not just be so dismissive baring in mind the previous advice.