Homebuyer survey has revealed expensive damp issue

AnotherJoe

blue_max_3 said:

If I was selling a period place, I would be selling the dream. There are plenty of people looking to pick something up and create the place of their dreams. I can't imagine many people just moving in and not doing anything to it. This is relatively minor in the great scheme of things. And as has been mentioned, the opportunity to put underfloor heating in would be amazing! I put a wet system in a basement and it was awesome!

Many people have wet systems in their basements without doing anything  at all 

JT1987LBN

Mickey666 said:

So, suddenly, this house needs to have all the floors ripped up so that a DPC can be installed?  How old is it and how have the previous (presumably multiple) owners managed all this time?  The word ‘damp’ seems to instil irrational fear in home owners and a whole industry has grown up to fleece them. 

There are thousands of houses without DPCs and also without damp problems (mine is one of them).  Doozergirl’s post is very relevant in this respect.  Unfortunately, ignorant builders like to slap on modern materials because that’s all they know and they turn a perfectly happy BREATHABLE property into a nightmare because they’ve not used the appropriate materials, such as lime-based mortars and plasters and non-breathable (vinyl) paints.
It’s too big a subject to discuss here if the property in question is a genuinely ‘period’ property then I would look for another surveyor who actually understands such properties and can advise accordingly.  There is lots of information online but I’d recommend the SPAB website as a good start: https://www.spab.org.uk/advice/buying-old-building
Period properties can be wonderful, characterful, quirky, different . . . but if you’re the sort of person who likes everything modern and thinks plastic windows and doors are a good idea they are probably not for you.

The property was built in 1969 so is reasonable new in the grand scheme of things (have just been told today) and it's only had one owner in the last 20 years, they have rented it out to multiple people. I know the property I rented years ago had similar issues (which is why it hasn't totally put me off - it just needed a few quid investing in it which unfortunately the landlord wouldn't do). God knows when this property was last worked on but it appears they have done things on the cheap while renting it out as there are multiple other problems, which we don't mind rectifying. Thanks for your post, we are definitely still interested as the house has so much potential and the above replies have been very useful.

JT1987LBN

Doozergirl said:

JT1987LBN said:

NameUnavailable said:

What exactly is the damp issue?

I would put details in writing to the agent, state a list of the works required and an approximate cost (inflate it a bit as there will always be something else you haven't seen yet) then ask for the reduction you need.

It's better to justify it rather than the vendor just getting a call to say their buyer wants £X off the price. Also they need to consider that another buyer may come back with the same issues if they went back on the market.

Of course your vendor may need £182K and might not also have anything left in the pot to help you out. But you can only try. In the current market I expect they won't want to lose a buyer. Good luck!

Thanks for your reply, it's a bigger issue than expected as there is no damp membrane (I'm not technical at all so hoping I've used the right terminology) to the edges of all of the rooms, so basically it's just concrete around the edges so the surveyor has advised nearly every floor in the house will need to be pulled up, and a damp membrane added to all floors to the edges of the room. The house has loads of other things that need fixing (windows are over 20 years old, kitchen and bathroom need replacing, insulation etc) but we fully expected those to cost us a few quid. This damp problem is bigger than we thought and it's the reduced mortgage which is the shock for us (we are probably a bit naive haha) .

Adding a damp proof membrane to the edges doesn't stop dampness from creeping up the walls. 

Please have a look at how extensive the issue actually is first.  Those 'damp meters' they use don't diagnose damp.  If there is an issue, it won't be invisible.  You'll either see it or smell it.  For it to be 'extensive' then you really would be smelling it.  

I doubt that you'll need to pull up every floor.  The first thing to do is to find out why the ground underneath is wet.   It shouldn't be, so you fix whatever that is and then wait for it to dry out.  

You don't want to damp proof an older house, so the solution is actually to allow walls and floors to breathe.  You can cut a channel about a foot back from the wall, breaking any damp proof membrane on purpose(!) and putting limecrete instead of concrete around the edges, which is breathable.  For the walls, you would like plaster affected areas, not gypsum plaster or render. 

In summary: 
1. Is there actually damp 
2. where is the water coming from
3. Let the house breathe, not wrap it in plastic! Plastic is for new houses, NOT old ones.  

https://www.heritage-house.org/damp-and-condensation/managing-damp-in-old-buildings.html

I won't say anything about the negotiations on price, as you've had sensible advice already.  

Thanks for this very informative post! I'm so glad I posted on here as that is really useful to know.

JT1987LBN

AdrianC said:

JT1987LBN said:

Our Homebuyer survey has just been done and confirmed that there is indeed a lot of work to be done, and unfortunately they have reduced our mortgage offer from £185k to £182k. We are going to go back to the estate agent to say we are unable to pay the original price of £185k as we cannot get a mortgage for this amount, and would they accept a reduced £182k.

Were you absolutely hard against the top of your affordability anyway?
Because, if not, then it's not a showstopper.

Let's say that you have £37k equity, so would have been looking at an 80% £148k LtV mortgage. At a valuation of £182k, that's only just over 81% LtV. Even with 85% being the max most lenders are going for, that's still well within affordability.

Don't spin tales about "can't possibly afford to", unless you REALLY know you absolutely cannot. It's £3k. Houses can swallow £3k at any time without blinking.

My question is, does anyone have experience with sellers being awkward about this, even when the valuation is stating the property is worth less due to the damp issue? And how is the best way to negotiate?

You ask. They may say yes, they may say no. If they say no, you need to decide whether to walk away or not...

Thanks for the reply. We have put a fair bit of money aside as we know there is plenty of work to be done, with that in mind we have gone back to the seller with a slightly reduced price, but not so low that it's insulting. But we have the money in the bank to be able to fix a lot of the issues we have found so far. We're excited about this property and don't want to lose it.

Doozergirl

Good Luck!   

I always like it when people don't mind a challenge. 🙂

stuart45

Think he meant the DPM was missing, rather than the DPC. It still should have a DPM as they were made part of the Regs mid 60's. However back then and for quite a few years later it was common practice on site to slice through the DPM with a trowel and cut it off flush between the slab and inner skin. This made it easier to lay out the DPC and the first course of blockwork.
This practice did lead to damp problems and BRE recommended 3 coats of black at the base.

JT1987LBN

Thanks for everyone's help! We've knocked a few quid off the price and got some great advice. Cheers guys

JT1987LBN

stuart45 said:

Think he meant the DPM was missing, rather than the DPC. It still should have a DPM as they were made part of the Regs mid 60's. However back then and for quite a few years later it was common practice on site to slice through the DPM with a trowel and cut it off flush between the slab and inner skin. This made it easier to lay out the DPC and the first course of blockwork.
This practice did lead to damp problems and BRE recommended 3 coats of black at the base.

You were quite right, it was the DPM missing, not the DPC. That's what I get for rushing to write a post before getting the full information 

Hannimal

I am in no way, shape or form qualified to make this comment but I will anyway. If you are buying a fixer upper that needs new almost-everything from floors to windows and bathrooms to kitchens, and you are actually at the edge of your seat over £3000, you may be up for some dire times. I know £3000 is a lot of money but you will likely have a fair few surprises coming up along the way. I don't want to be condescending but I'd be a bit worried. Especially as you admit you don't really understand the work that is needed. 

JT1987LBN

Hannimal said:

I am in no way, shape or form qualified to make this comment but I will anyway. If you are buying a fixer upper that needs new almost-everything from floors to windows and bathrooms to kitchens, and you are actually at the edge of your seat over £3000, you may be up for some dire times. I know £3000 is a lot of money but you will likely have a fair few surprises coming up along the way. I don't want to be condescending but I'd be a bit worried. Especially as you admit you don't really understand the work that is needed. 

Thanks for your comment, to be honest I think I was in a bit of a naive bubble early last week with regards to the down-valuation. We've got a savings account for the repairs needed for the fixer-upper and I was a bit taken aback at the £3k that we suddenly needed to use on the deposit so was a bit of a knee-jerk reaction. However we've shuffled some more savings around and are confident we can get the place in reasonable shape with the money we've saved (and the money we've got to now make up the difference between valuation and mortgage with). Appreciate your comment though!