David Lloyd Gym Membership

helenwes

Question 1: David Lloyd gyms froze memberships at the start of lockdown; payments are taken in advance on the first of the month for those who pay monthly. This meant that there were 11 days in March that we were unable to use the club. They have acknowledged this, and have offered to compensate us those 11 days by way of vouchers in some form or another; they did not give us the option of simply having a refund, and told us that if we didn't choose one of the 4 options, they would select one for us. None of the options offered are suitable for me. They offered bar vouchers (I don't use it), personal trainer voucher (I only use the place for swimming and yoga), guest passes (this is of no benefit to 'me'), and 'donating to the club' - essentially allowing them to keep my money. I have told them that none of the options are acceptable to me, but they will not budge and have said they are not obliged to refund. Is this correct? 

Question 2: I decided during lockdown that I would cancel my membership, providing the required 3 months' notice. The yoga teachers whose classes I attended there have all converted to private online teaching, and are not returning to the gym anytime soon, if at all, and so I won't be able to get the full benefit of the membership I previously enjoyed. I notified them on the 27th May (and received an automated case reference acknowledgement by return). They require 3 calendar months' notice, so by my reckoning, those three months are June, July and August, with my membership ending on the 31st August 2020. I have just received an email saying that the last payment will be taken on the 1st October, and the membership will end on the 31st October (since they debit monthly in advance). At first I thought it was an error, however, I've now realised that they have probably decided that since the club was closed for lockdown, my notice period wouldn't count during that time, and that it would only kick in from the start of August, since they want their full 3 month's fees. Surely this can't be correct? 

Question 3: My partner, who is on a separate membership, has been a member for 10 plus years, so not in a 12 month contract, just required to give the same 3 months' notice as myself; he pays annually in one lump sum. He also handed in his notice in May. His membership should also therefore end on 31st August. Again they are saying it will end on the 31st October. He paid his annual fee (there is no discount for paying annually by the way) on the 1st October 2019, which takes him up to the end of September this year. There is nothing to say, in the Ts & Cs that if he revokes his membership within that time, he is not entitled to a refund of unused months (the only reference to not receiving a refund of unused months is for those on a 12 month contract, which he isn't).  However, since his membership should end on the 31st August, he should be entitled to a refund of that final month of September. They are saying he isn't. Is this correct?

This next point isn't a question, just some context around their general attitude to their members:
To add insult to injury, they sent an email this week, saying that the clubs are re-opening on the 25th and will be taking the fees for that last week in July on the 24th of this month, even though they admit there are so many unknowns in terms of how many will be allowed into classes, whether we will be able to use all of the facilities etc., although by way of compensation for this, they will be reducing the fees by 10% for the last week in July and the month of August. There has been no option to continue with a frozen membership until members feel ready to return; I have seen that other gyms, both privately- and council-run, are offering the 'option' to return, and only when members feel comfortable returning will their fees reinstate. Every email DL have sent during lockdown has started with fee information, that is the sole emphasis, and then fill it out with other club news. They really lack in customer care and service skills, and it's been their attitude that has driven me to decide to leave; I have been a member for almost 20 years, so it's not as though I'm looking for a quick get out or trying to avoid paying and using the C-19 situation as an excuse / get out clause. They couldn't care less about me leaving, only that they get as much out of me as they can before I do.

Thanks for reading - apologies for the length!  

Jonesy1977

Question 1  -  DL feel it is and they have legal council that no doubt provided that advice.  Morally, if you personally don't want any of the options given to you, then i understand that may be frustrating but they were forced to close it was not optional, if they paid back everyone cash for the 11 days they may need to cut costs elsewhere (staff) 
Question 2 -  It is correct, your membership was suspended  (and you were not charged) you were also informed that you cannot cancel until the club opens.
Question 3 - that one is more difficult, if he has paid in advance then theoretically he should be refunded, however they are taking the view that the membership was suspended and therefore he will have the lost time added on to the end. It also does not change the fact that cancellation was not possible in May.
 I get it, I am a DL member BTW however the idea that they should give members the option to not pay anything until they feel ready to return is a non starter............there would be no club, you also have a contract (they need to provide the services) and they are, the fact that you don't like the reduction in service is something that is out of DL control.  At the end of the day we are not going to get everything that we had before for the same or less money across the board and it is not our fault, but it is also not DL fault either..................

helenwes

Jonesy1977 said:

Question 1  -  DL feel it is and they have legal council that no doubt provided that advice.  Morally, if you personally don't want any of the options given to you, then i understand that may be frustrating but they were forced to close it was not optional, if they paid back everyone cash for the 11 days they may need to cut costs elsewhere (staff) - 
Question 2 -  It is correct, your membership was suspended  (and you were not charged) you were also informed that you cannot cancel until the club opens.
Question 3 - that one is more difficult, if he has paid in advance then theoretically he should be refunded, however they are taking the view that the membership was suspended and therefore he will have the lost time added on to the end. It also does not change the fact that cancellation was not possible in May.
 I get it, I am a DL member BTW however the idea that they should give members the option to not pay anything until they feel ready to return is a non starter............there would be no club, you also have a contract (they need to provide the services) and they are, the fact that you don't like the reduction in service is something that is out of DL control.  At the end of the day we are not going to get everything that we had before for the same or less money across the board and it is not our fault, but it is also not DL fault either..................

Q1. thanks, it's as I expected, just as you say a bit frustrating, and more the manner in which they have imposed their decisions.
Q2. I have just checked through all of the correspondence from them and I have not been informed anywhere that I cannot cancel my membership until the club opens?
Q3. A gesture of goodwill wouldn't have gone amiss, but we are long resigned to their customer care ways.

I'm not apportioning any blame, just wanted to understand where we stood, and not surprised to read the answers. It's just a shame that they couldn't have adopted a better approach; even just swapping out the last week of July for the last week in March. I accept there'll be a reduction in service, there has to be, and I'm not saying I don't like that, just that I won't be able to use the gym as I have been, which makes it financially unviable for me to continue if my teachers have left. I perhaps could've convinced myself to stay, had they even been halfway friendly. I understand how it works there, my business managed their staff satisfaction surveys for many years, and the staff were amongst the most dissatisfied of all the staff I have ever surveyed. They would have retained 2 memberships if they had a better attitude, and I'm sure, from all the posts I've seen on social media, there'll be plenty more too. 
Anyway, thanks for your reply, much appreciated

Jonesy1977

As you have been a member there for such a long time, I would try and get meeting with the GM when you return but I think that there is going to very little they can/will do.  The website was updated in March saying that everything was suspended.  As you haven't paid since March you are materially not any worse off and therefore I assume any court would side with DL (not suggesting you would take it there).   I am sure you will be missed by other members even if not by the club! :-)

unholyangel

Q1 - no it's not correct. They were in breach of contract. The fact it was beyond their control just means they aren't liable for additional losses - it doesn't mean they can charge you for services they never provided. They should refund on a pro-rata basis.

Q2 - Nor can they unilaterally alter the terms of the contract in their favour. They can't use their breach (even if it was outwith their control) to disadvantage you in any way, shape or form. It may not be their fault, but it's not yours either. 

Q3 - same for him - they can't use their own breach to unilaterally vary the contract in their favour. The fact they weren't open all months during the cancellation period means they lose the right to charge for those months - not that they can displace your liability to pay onto other months. 

There was another thread on here from a DL member a few days ago. I detailed why they can't do what they're trying to do. I'll expand on any points raised, but not going to repeat it all. I'll just post a link to the CMA's unfair contract terms guidance 

Jonesy1977

unholyangel said:

Q1 - no it's not correct. They were in breach of contract. The fact it was beyond their control just means they aren't liable for additional losses - it doesn't mean they can charge you for services they never provided. They should refund on a pro-rata basis.

Q2 - Nor can they unilaterally alter the terms of the contract in their favour. They can't use their breach (even if it was outwith their control) to disadvantage you in any way, shape or form. It may not be their fault, but it's not yours either. 

Q3 - same for him - they can't use their own breach to unilaterally vary the contract in their favour. The fact they weren't open all months during the cancellation period means they lose the right to charge for those months - not that they can displace your liability to pay onto other months. 

There was another thread on here from a DL member a few days ago. I detailed why they can't do what they're trying to do. I'll expand on any points raised, but not going to repeat it all. I'll just post a link to the CMA's unfair contract terms guidance 

Yes they can and did. 

unholyangel

Jonesy1977 said:

unholyangel said:

Q1 - no it's not correct. They were in breach of contract. The fact it was beyond their control just means they aren't liable for additional losses - it doesn't mean they can charge you for services they never provided. They should refund on a pro-rata basis.

Q2 - Nor can they unilaterally alter the terms of the contract in their favour. They can't use their breach (even if it was outwith their control) to disadvantage you in any way, shape or form. It may not be their fault, but it's not yours either. 

Q3 - same for him - they can't use their own breach to unilaterally vary the contract in their favour. The fact they weren't open all months during the cancellation period means they lose the right to charge for those months - not that they can displace your liability to pay onto other months. 

There was another thread on here from a DL member a few days ago. I detailed why they can't do what they're trying to do. I'll expand on any points raised, but not going to repeat it all. I'll just post a link to the CMA's unfair contract terms guidance 

Yes they can and did. 

Not legally they can't. 

facebylouise

Jonesy1977 said:

Yes they can and did. 

Isn't this site about helping people and giving advice, not making smug remarks?
No wonder so many people get ripped off by companies. People have lost the will to fight for their hard earned money. We are the customers, we are the ones whom keep them in business paying their wages and profits and if we collectively stand up to them when they try and shaft us, we can stop it. Collectively, we have power, individually we are a nuisance
All businesses need customers, If only people put as much effort into things like this rather than getting offended for dailymailesque garbage that does not matter we would even be discussing unfair terms like this.

Jonesy1977

facebylouise said:

Jonesy1977 said:

Yes they can and did. 

Isn't this site about helping people and giving advice, not making smug remarks?
No wonder so many people get ripped off by companies. People have lost the will to fight for their hard earned money. We are the customers, we are the ones whom keep them in business paying their wages and profits and if we collectively stand up to them when they try and shaft us, we can stop it. Collectively, we have power, individually we are a nuisance
All businesses need customers, If only people put as much effort into things like this rather than getting offended for dailymailesque garbage that does not matter we would even be discussing unfair terms like this.

You are right, I apologise, on re-reading that sounded rude, it was not my intention. I was making the point that they can and have done this, and explained why and how to all members and detailed on their website.  No one has been charged whilst membership was suspended and this FOC approach can be extended by members until September, they have discounted August to make up for the last week in March If you return and they clearly explained that the membership was suspended and will be resumed when they open.  I think that have been fair (I am a DL member) and I am also sure that the circumstances as they are have been checked by their legal council.  To your point regarding us ‘being the customers and paying their wages” I reiterate no one has paid membership fees since March so no one is materially out of pocket, therefore there would be no legal case to answer IMO.

unholyangel

Jonesy1977 said:

facebylouise said:

Jonesy1977 said:

Yes they can and did. 

Isn't this site about helping people and giving advice, not making smug remarks?
No wonder so many people get ripped off by companies. People have lost the will to fight for their hard earned money. We are the customers, we are the ones whom keep them in business paying their wages and profits and if we collectively stand up to them when they try and shaft us, we can stop it. Collectively, we have power, individually we are a nuisance
All businesses need customers, If only people put as much effort into things like this rather than getting offended for dailymailesque garbage that does not matter we would even be discussing unfair terms like this.

You are right, I apologise, on re-reading that sounded rude, it was not my intention. I was making the point that they can and have done this, and explained why and how to all members and detailed on their website.  No one has been charged whilst membership was suspended and this FOC approach can be extended by members until September, they have discounted August to make up for the last week in March If you return and they clearly explained that the membership was suspended and will be resumed when they open.  I think that have been fair (I am a DL member) and I am also sure that the circumstances as they are have been checked by their legal council.  To your point regarding us ‘being the customers and paying their wages” I reiterate no one has paid membership fees since March so no one is materially out of pocket, therefore there would be no legal case to answer IMO.

Not every organisation has it's own legal counsel. I can guarantee you that what they are trying to do is not legal and wouldn't be enforceable. It conflicts not just with one provision of the CMA's unfair contract guidance, but several. The whole reason we (consumers) have rights that can't be opted out of is because traders have a very long established history of taking advantage of consumers & having terms that protect the trader but offer no real value/protection to the consumer. 

Why else do you think the CMA released a statement saying that customers are entitled to a full refund/to cancel where goods/services aren't provided as agreed due to covid and shouldn't be misled or pressured into accepting a voucher, credit or rescheduling? It's not because DL are acting within the law. 

Lurkingtoposting17

It genuinely annoying me that on a moneysaving website everyone keeps saying you don’t have the right to a refund if you are offered an extension or postment. You are according to CMA guidance. They can of course offer you a chance to pause your contract but they cannot make you accept. 

The unfortunate part of the CMA guidance is there is no way to force them to comply. Your boyfriend paid upfront (same scenario as me with my gym) so I have sent them a letter before action asking for a pro rata refund and breaking down the cost and I’m going to attempt a partial refund via my credit card company. 

However, in your case as you are on direct debit I would cancel the DD and refer them to the relevant CMA guidance proving you have provided adequate notice as per your contract and you are exerting your right to decline their contract extension. 

Good luck!!