Bepoke design - off the shelf kitchen

Sandtree

So we were getting close to pushing the button on buying a kitchen for our home near the beginning of the year and just needed to finalise a few bits and then deal with the price. Unfortunately whilst the Mrs was pondering and went on an unplanned holiday the company went bust.

Managed to find the designer on social media and they very kindly managed to recover the detailed plan from the administrators and make a few minor tweaks. So we now have a design that is 75% standard sorts of units (eg 600mm highline cupboard) and 25% that are very specific heights or depths etc.

I've looked at DIY Kitchens and we can probably make minor amends to get it to 85% stock units but that means for the remaining 15% either making material changes to the kitchen design or having to work out how to make alterations to the units themselves (I think we can have it so we are just cutting down sizes). Out of the usual off the shelf players are any more or less suitable for a fitter/carpenter to cut down to size? Are there any that offer bespoke units which would work out better value than larger ones cut down?

Doozergirl

No one can advise on what can be changed without seeing a plan.  Can you post it?  

A bit of jiggery-pokery here and there is always a good idea to hide any nooks and crannies, but it might be worth standardising most of it.

Sandtree

The three issues, one of which I think is simple to fix...

there is a peninsular made of back to back units with a hob and built in extractor which has 2 requirements, firstly the back edge needs to align with another feature in the room and the gap between the  two units need to work with the extractor ducting. I’ve not seen any that work precisely with the maths so could have a moderate void and very shallow rear cupboards but would much prefer to have deeper rear units and the minimum void.

Similarly there’s a wall of tall units to envelop out freestanding fridge and freezer and nearly reach the ceiling. In the original design the units to the sides were full height with a base door in line with the fridge height plus 2cm airgap and a top door for the rest with two 3/4 depth units bridging over the fridge & freezer of the same size as the upper doors. I originally thought of rather than full height units having them as units the height of the fridge +2cm and then short units above to take all the units and the fridge to almost the ceiling with a couple being shallower. Finding the right height for the top units again is the problem. 

Finally, the easiest one, was the end tall unit wasn’t to be a cupboard but instead a bookcase side on with a fake door on its side (so open to the rest of the lounge/kitchen 

we’ll live here for about 5 years so need to like the kitchen as it’s too long to live with it (wife hates that the current units don’t align etc) but when it’s on the market we don’t want quirky issues (doors and cupboards not aligned etc as a friend suggested) which would suggest shortcuts were taken. 

Doozergirl

Pictures really do speak a thousand words.  

It's also easy to post them now since the forum was updated.  

Sandtree

Unfortunately I don't have the renders to show but using random photos found online in conjunction with the description above...

A very crude plan that is only partially to scale - in hind sight the kitchen extends further into the room and the door is slight further into the room too. Mrs is very particular about the different runs of units aligning with each other as she hates the current kitchen with units at different heights etc:


The peninsula will be like the below however the width it needs to be explicitly so it aligns with the tall units end on the other wall and the unit below the hob has a minimum depth to deal with the exhaust. The issue here is getting units that are of a maximum depth without exceeding the set total width (which is the depth of the two units + void)



This is a zoomed in version of the effect of the 2nd problem.... you can see the lower doors of the wall units match the height of the fridge/freezer and then above all of them is a 2nd row of doors that also go above the fridge/freezer which go almost to the ceiling. In our case there will need to be an air gap round the appliances but that is an unnecessary complication probably.

Doozergirl

Okay, I get the problems but without proper measurements I'm at a loss to tell you how you circumnavigate each one. 

I can only say that yes, you can alter the depths of cabinets and even change the height of doors if the door is a simple slab and your carpenter of sufficient calibre.  

Presumably you don't have the gaggenau appliances if you need an air gap.  Bear in mind that the swing on 'ordinary' (even quite expensive) freestanding fridge doors also requires them to stand proud of the cabinet fronts to be able to open.  A truly bespoke look like that requires a mind blowingly expensive refrigerators and truly bespoke doors. If the aesthetic is that important, I'd consider buying integrated ones because the labour cost money f doing these things isn't insignificant.  

All said, you were using a company that could bespoke make the cabinets so why not continue to use one?   

I'm using www.kitchensfordiy.com at the moment.  I get the impression that doors are standard sizes but cabinets are bespoke, so there is more flexibility.  Lockdown means it hasn't been the smoothest process but I was quoted twice the price for the exact same kitchen in London.  

Sandtree

The fridge/freezer is actually an added complication because we bought new when moving 20 months ago, and the freezer has been repaired once and written off twice since then. We are slowly winning the battle to get them refunded and so will have to revisit the solution and it may help with the problem. 

The current units would have needed an air gap and would have been slightly proud of the wall; the freezer element had 315L of capacity in a 600mm format which was great. An alternative freestanding has been found that is also 600mm but only gives you ~255L but the unit is slightly deeper so will be more proud. There is also a fully integrated option that removes the airgap need but capacity goes down to ~205L so losing almost a third from our current freezer.

If we won the lottery we may consider Gaggenau, Sub-Zero or Liebherr Monolith but no luck on that front yet. I find it slightly odd how there is nothing between them and the upper standard items... even Liebherr who play at both levels have a freezer for £2,000 and then the next most expensive one is £8,000.

The doors will be a straightforward slab so design wise can be cut, if the finish is damaged by cutting I don't know.

My question was really... is it likely to be cheaper to buy bespoke or customise off the shelf.... if the later then is any brand better at being customised than another... if it is the former are there any recommendations for companies.

Doozergirl

I have the same problem.  We've spent £2,000 on a fridge freezer that has clean lines but it still needs to sit proud and yes, it jumps right up from there.  

I've just recommended the website of a company in my last post that will bespoke make the cabinets for you.  There's a lady there called Judith than can offer you some advice.

I've picked the most expensive in-frame kitchen doors that they make, there's some bespoke colour spraying, only one custom sized unit and shed load of inserts etc. so I can't compare it to my 'normal' type of kitchen purchase from Howdens or whatever, but it's way cheaper than a truly bespoke kitchen.  I had the benefit of designing my own house though so I went proper MSE and made the size of the room fit perfectly symmetrical units so they'll look bespoke!! 

When you look at the individual units that need altering, then the labour cost on site is going to be higher than buying an actual unit, I'm sure, plus you're relying on an individual's skill to make it secure and look good, rather than a machine.  Across the whole kitchen, though, bespoke everything is going to cost more.  

If you're buying off the shelf then I guess you want those particular units to come flat packed as there's no point building a unit for you only to spend time cutting it up and putting it back together again. 

You're only going to find out by getting quotes, but if it's more than one or two units and you want a great finish then I'd certainly be looking at a flexibly bespoke option.  

Sandtree

Thanks for all your comments.

For the cabinets/doors themselves DIY Kitchen were approximately 35% cheaper than the prior company (that went bust so maybe not a good comparison) and not sure if I've managed to include all the kickboards etc etc. Then need to get modifications made on top of that plus would need to source some glass doors on a couple of units as they need to match another glass door (I am told). 

That said, with the previous companies quote I always thought the units were OK priced, the fitting expensive and the worksurface out right ridiculous (we are supplying our own appliances thanks to corporate discounts)

Rosa_Damascena

Sandtree said:

Thanks for all your comments.

For the cabinets/doors themselves DIY Kitchen were approximately 35% cheaper than the prior company (that went bust so maybe not a good comparison) and not sure if I've managed to include all the kickboards etc etc. Then need to get modifications made on top of that plus would need to source some glass doors on a couple of units as they need to match another glass door (I am told). 

That said, with the previous companies quote I always thought the units were OK priced, the fitting expensive and the worksurface out right ridiculous (we are supplying our own appliances thanks to corporate discounts)

I am told by my builder that kitchen and bathroom fitting is very lucrative work. I'd rather just hand everything over to him as he knows what he is doing.

Sandtree

Rosa_Damascena said:
I am told by my builder that kitchen and bathroom fitting is very lucrative work. I'd rather just hand everything over to him as he knows what he is doing.

I'm sure it is and I don't mind paying for skilled people but the kitchen companies "own fitters" 
a) are installing the cabinets which are all prebuilt and to size with all lighting etc already built in and only 2 items needing altering for some boxed pipework 
b) worksurfaces are all precut with most the necessary recesses etc 
c) all electrics and plumbing has to be done by us before they arrived so they are simply plugging things in
d) doesn't include any tiling/splashbacks etc 
e) we had to remove the old kitchen and make good the walls etc first

Their own fitters were quoting a five figure sum for fitting - a lot more than the cost of the units themselves (but less than the quote for the worktops)