Employee asked to pay the company's NIC in cash!

Rob_SP

My friend is currently on furlough and has had a meeting with his employer recently.  The company has not made any decision on redundancy as yet but they have no work available at the present time. As the company is being requested to contribute to furlough payments from August onwards, my friend has been asked if he would pay this difference from his salary in order to be kept on furlough.  When my friend asked how this would need to be paid back to the company, they told him it would have to be in cash!  Surely this is illegal?

Jeremy535897

It is not allowed under the CJRS scheme, certainly. That's why they mention cash, no doubt.

epm-84

Your friend should report it to HMRC as they are an employer abusing the furlough scheme.

Galloglass

epm-84 said:

Your friend should report it to HMRC as they are an employer abusing the furlough scheme.

I think you'll need to check where the suggestion of furlough scheme abuse initially came from before attempting this. 

epm-84

Galloglass said:

epm-84 said:

Your friend should report it to HMRC as they are an employer abusing the furlough scheme.

I think you'll need to check where the suggestion of furlough scheme abuse initially came from before attempting this. 

Not sure that matters.  It's not the employee's responsibility to be familiar with employment law.  The employer should have said "No sorry that would be a breach of the rules so we need to look an alternative option" opposed to "Yes do that but do it in a way which doesn't show on our accounts so we don't get in the trouble for it."

holly1991

Not sure that matters.  It's not the employee's responsibility to be familiar with employment law.  The employer should have said "No sorry that would be a breach of the rules so we need to look an alternative option" opposed to "Yes do that but do it in a way which doesn't show on our accounts so we don't get in the trouble for it."

Erm I think u will find if I rang ACAs they would say different , an employee still has the responsibility to check that their tax and ni is right , regardless to whether the employer is abusing the system obviously they should be reported but employees definitely have some responsibility to make sure these are correct 

Galloglass

From the CPS website. It's also not employment law but tax law as it is HMRC hosing out the money.

The parties to an offence

Where two or more persons are involved in an offence, the parties to the offence may be principals (D1) or secondary parties (accessories ) (D2). Each offence will have at least one principal, although it is not always possible or necessary to identify the principal(s).

A principal is one who carries out the substantive offence i.e. performs or causes the actus reus of the offence with the required mens rea. If two or more persons do so, they are joint principals.

A secondary party is one who aids, abets, counsels or procures (commonly referred to as assists or encourages) D1 to commit the substantive offence, without being a principal offender. However, a secondary party can be prosecuted and punished as if he were a principal offender: s8 Accessories and Abettors Act 1861.

Secondary liability principles can be applied to most offences. The principles remain the same, whichever offence they are applied to. The principles are commonly used in offences of violence, theft, fraud and public order.

In pointing out the above, it is also worth bearing in mind that people carry out this sort of stuff daily and do avoid detection. Which is why you have audits, checks, penalties and prison in some extreme cases.

The "friend" would be well advised to think about the implications for the sake of a few £.

When HM Revenue & Customs (“HMRC”) suspect tax fraud, the matter can be investigated by either a criminal or civil investigation. The objective of the civil fraud investigation is to deal with fraud in a cost effective manner where appropriate. Criminal investigations remain reserved for cases “where HMRC needs to send a strong deterrent message or where the conduct involved is such that only a criminal sanction is appropriate”.

epm-84

holly1991 said:

Not sure that matters.  It's not the employee's responsibility to be familiar with employment law.  The employer should have said "No sorry that would be a breach of the rules so we need to look an alternative option" opposed to "Yes do that but do it in a way which doesn't show on our accounts so we don't get in the trouble for it."

Erm I think u will find if I rang ACAs they would say different , an employee still has the responsibility to check that their tax and ni is right , regardless to whether the employer is abusing the system obviously they should be reported but employees definitely have some responsibility to make sure these are correct 

I think ACAS would say this comes under what deductions employers can make from their employee's pay opposed being part of an employee's obligation to check their tax and NI is right.

SXX

My recruitment agency has informed me that I will be taken off furlough from 1 August as they cannot afford to make any employer contributions.  They also mentioned that they had looked at different scenarios to keep me on furlough until end of scheme including considering taking the employer deductions from my furlough pay.  So I suspect there are other employers out there thinking the same.