Tenancy agreement

sassy_one

After some advice.

Situation -
A viewed a property that a landlord was renting.
Landlord stated look around.
Property had various damp, damp catch boxes, wall in bedroom was peeling wallpaper due to the amount of damp.

A obviously refused the property. 
Landlord states you can take it if you want and pay me a deposit and rent in a months time, to make it more manageable, sign tenancy today though. 

A refused this offer.
A few weeks later A goes to view a few more places, one of those unbeknown to them is rented by the landlord who had the damp.

The landlord stated that it wasn't vacant for two weeks.
Stated because A had apparently messed them around with the previous property they wanted the deposit now (£800)
A states not got that, so in the end agrees to rent the property.

A pays landlord £500.
Landlord and A sign 6 months AST starting in 2 weeks time.

However, now becomes the issue.
Landlord states that property won't be vacant on the stated date due to existing tenants unable to remove contents for another week or so.
However they can go in and stay but will mean they will have to allow old tenants to go in and out.

A now wants to surrender tenancy as landlord seems rogue. 

Obviously, a tenancy is signed.

However, I have read online as no keys have been given to A, the deposit hasn't or would not of been protected yet and no months rent has been paid, the tenancy agreement hasn't started yet, they can back out as they haven't taken possession. 


Can anyone advise how to proceed with this?
As I am guessing they will almost certainly lose the deposit paid.
I also add the tenancy was not witnessed by anyone being signed.

Please be kind, we are talking about someone who is vulnerable and isn't clued up on these things.

Thank you

anselld

I would say L is in breach of contract by failing to give vacant possession on the agreed date.  Proving that and getting the money back may be tricky though.  The T should probably seek assistance from Shelter or the like.

sassy_one

anselld said:

I would say L is in breach of contract by failing to give vacant possession on the agreed date.  Proving that and getting the money back may be tricky though.  The T should probably seek assistance from Shelter or the like.

Shelter have said they don't think the LL will have any chance of suing the T as the contract hasn't yet started and the way property rental is, unlikely the LL could show a loss to rent it as they will be able to quickly.

They also said LL legally must return the partial deposit as that's what it was rather than a holding deposit.

No idea how to approach this LL though as I hear they are very strict

sassy_one

Plot thickens


I've done my own digging.
The property that a good friend of mine has rented is all over Booking.com, and various other websites as a rental for nightly.

Looking at it, it also shows all the other apartments in the building are rental by nightly or short term basis only, managed by Booking.com and Hostel websites.

I have just told my friend about this and he has sent me photos of the flat, they match the photos of the flat on Booking.com.


Can anyone advise what should/ can be said to the LL to get out of this tenancy?
I'm thinking they could be told willing to surrender tenancy if deposit is returned, given the fact was not informed the premise was also a "hotel" rental.

Please, any advice welcomed!

greatcrested

Wha was the £500 paymen? Was it

* a holding deposit?

* advance rent?

* security deposit?

What (exactly please) does it say on the receipt?

So a tenancy agreement has been signed by both parties, stating tenancy start date of (X??) yes? A contract therefore exists.

Tenant is obligated to pay rent as per the contract.

LL is obligated to provide accomodation as per the contract.

If the LL is unable to provide acomodation he is in breach of contract and T can claim consequential loss. eg if T has to move into a hotel as the keys are not available, he can claim the hotelcost from LL(keep receipts!).

If the LL hands over the property keys to the T, T is under no obligation to give previous Ts or anyone else access. Any belongings of previous T should be protected though - cannot be simply discarded. But T could, for example, put them in storage for previous Ts to retrieve later after re-imbursing current T for the storage costs.

greatcrested

sassy-one said:

anselld said:

I would say L is in breach of contract by failing to give vacant possession on the agreed date.  Proving that and getting the money back may be tricky though.  The T should probably seek assistance from Shelter or the like.

Shelter have said they don't think the LL will have any chance of suing the T as the contract hasn't yet started

the contract started the moment it was signed by both parties. It is the tenancy that has not yet started.

and the way property rental is, unlikely the LL could show a loss to rent it as they will be able to quickly.

They also said LL legally must return the partial deposit as that's what it was rather than a holding deposit.

No idea what Shelter mean by 'partial deposit'. No such thing. It was either a holding deposit, security deposit, or advance rent. Which?
No idea how to approach this LL though as I hear they are very strict

Seems to me you failed to learn the lesson regarding this landlord the first time you viewed one of his properties!

I would threaten the hotel bills, but suggest that if he returns your money in full and tears up the contract, you'll agree to walk away.

sassy_one

The tenancy has written on the bottom 

(Deposit paid of £500 on 2nd of July.
Remaining balance of £1100 to be paid on move in)

No Gas Safety Certificate given or shown.
LL stated that T would have to accept estimated meter reads from previous tenants as "could not be bothered" to go outside and check these, that is also apparently written on the tenancy.

I have discovered this evening the property is on Booking.com, including all the other flats in the building.

Finally, for some reason this flat has been advertised 9 times in the last 14 months, with a month gap between some postings of it.

Tenancy was not witnessed by anyone.
Tenancy agreement does not look very professional apparently, simply states this is a Assured Shorthold Agreement with the details on, names address, etc, doesn't actually state anything to do with rights to occupy or housing act legislation.

My friend wishes not to rent it any longer given the many issues found above and not being able to move in on agreed date.

LL refuses keys at this time.

greatcrested

sassy-one said:

The tenancy has written on the bottom 

(Deposit paid of £500 on 2nd of July.
Remaining balance of £1100 to be paid on move in)
so - holding deposit? Security deposit? If it's not clear, the amount might suggest which since

Holding deposits can legally be no more than 1 weeks rent - how much is the rent and is £1600 more than a weeks rent?

Security deposits can be no more than 5 weeks rent, so... same question....
No Gas Safety Certificate given or shown. What is the teancy start date? That's when Cert is due.
LL stated that T would have to accept estimated meter reads from previous tenants as "could not be bothered" to go outside and check these, that is also apparently written on the tenancy. Why can you not read the meter yourself on the date you move in or on the tenancy start date? That's the normal procedure. If it is a dfferent reading to what the LL has put o the TA, write to the LL with the LL with your reading so it is on record.

Are bills included in the rent or does the T pay seperately to the utility comany, in which case the readings are between the T and te utility company, not the landlord.

I have discovered this evening the property is on Booking.com, including all the other flats in the building. So..? Does not alter the legal position regarding your contract.

Finally, for some reason this flat has been advertised 9 times in the last 14 months, with a month gap between some postings of it. Well I agree it all sounds dodgy as does the LL, but you knew that from your earlier viewing.......

Tenancy was not witnessed by anyone. Irrelevan. Does not need to be unless the tenancy is for longer than 3 years.
Tenancy agreement does not look very professional apparently, simply states this is a Assured Shorthold 

Agreement with the details on, names address, etc, doesn't actually state anything to do with rights to occupy or housing act legislation. The shorter the TA and fewer clauses, the fewer obligations on the tenant! Your rights under the Housing Act (and other Acts) exist whether stated in the TA or not.

My friend wishes not to rent it any longer given the many issues found above and not being able to move in on agreed date.

LL refuses keys at this time.

So as I suggsted, threaten to move into a hotel and pass him the bills unless he agrees to rescind the contract and return your..... whatever deposit it is.

sassy_one

Movement.

But advice needed, again please!


LL has agreed for a 50% return of the money (£250) and that withdraw from the tenancy.

T asked for a surrender of tenancy agreement, LL said no need, just returned the money by BACS - ref "deposit returned".

What now?
LL got very cagey when asked to refund the money, initially they said they didn't have time, they another excuse bank blocked the transfer, then was busy would do it tomorrow, managed to get it after saying either possession or refund.

However, LL not wanting to sign a surrender, will the refund in bank be enough evidence if they try legal action, to show the tenancy was surrendered?

greatcrested

If you answer the questions we'll be better abe to advise.