Claim Form received - VCS - WON - For the second time!

Coupon-mad

Why are you assuming they will get leave to set aside judgment?  You should be replying objecting and using @Johnersh's summary.

lyndonp59

Coupon-mad said:

Why are you assuming they will get leave to set aside judgment?  You should be replying objecting and using @Johnersh's summary.

At the moment we have an email sent yesterday, to the court, "copied" to us which included VCS's N244 application. Can we write to the court objecting to it? Not having come across this before I assumed, rightly or wrongly, we would then get something from the court and have to repy to that.

So your advice is to send an email to court using @J@Johnersh words etc. before the N244 is processed?

Coupon-mad

Yes, just email and object and summarise why you object to the application and also warn that this will cause you more costs and that you have already paid £110 that the Claimants are going to have to be liable for, in your view. 

Use @Johnersh's words as your summary of the position.

Ask that your email is referred to the presiding Judge who is considering the late application and ask that the Claimant (a serial litigator with its own in house legal team) is not given relief from sanctions against a litigant in person who did everything right, because this would be unjust.

Fruitcake

This is way beyond the scope of a parking help forum, but is it possible to treat this as two different issues? 
Issue or execute the warrant of control for non payment, and separately object to the court about the scammers application.

Johnersh

The o/p can file a witness statement in response and should do prior to a hearing. The court will not deal with this on the papers, but there is no harm in simply emailing to say that D objects to the application. 

Clearly the hearing cannot be dealt with on the papers since D objects, so a hearing will need to be listed and C needs to pay the correct fee for that. 

As noted above, It's disingenuous for C to apply late as they have done and suggest that D is at fault, whilst asking for it to be dealt with on the papers when that is self-evidently contentious. 

lyndonp59

Coupon-mad said:

Yes, just email and object and summarise why you object to the application and also warn that this will cause you more costs and that you have already paid £110 that the Claimants are going to have to be liable for, in your view. 

Use @Johnersh's words as your summary of the position.

Ask that your email is referred to the presiding Judge who is considering the late application and ask that the Claimant (a serial litigator with its own in house legal team) is not given relief from sanctions against a litigant in person who did everything right, because this would be unjust.

How does this sound? Too much?

==================================

Dear Mrs xxxxxx

In reply to the email from Jake Burgess to yourself dated 28th April 2021, I wish to raise an objection to the Claimants’ late application for an N244 set aside.

Firstly, the Claimant did not inform me they raised the complaint with yourselves on 25th January 2021 as required by CPR. I only found out from the Claimant on 8th March 2021 after I had sent them an email on 4th March 2021 giving them 7 days notice to pay the £95 as dictated by the order dated 21st January 2021 otherwise I would Request a Warrant of Control.

I emailed yourselves on 11th March 2021 (copied to the Claimant) with various objections to their complaint one of which was that by their own admission the Claimant had not supplied their contact details for the hearing to the court within 48 hours as dictated by the order dated 30th November 2020. It was not submitted until the 7th December 2020 at 14:45.

On ringing the court on 12th March 2021 to ensure my email had been received and also to find out if the Claimant had applied for a set aside (which they had not) I was told you wanted my phone number as you wished to speak with me regarding the matter. I have waited over the weeks since then for you to ring or make contact but none has been forthcoming. I have rung the court on a number of occasions since the 12th March to find out if the Claimant had submitted a set aside and if you still wanted to speak with me. Each time I was told the Claimant had not submitted a set aside and you would ring me.

When I phoned on the 25th March 2021 I was told the file stated you would ring by the 22nd March 2021. As the date had already passed and with no messages to say the complaint was ongoing I think it was fair to assume you did not need to speak with me and there was no longer a valid complaint for the Claimant pending. Again, a set aside had not been submitted. I asked if there was any reason why I could not submit a Warrant of Control. None was given, and I duly sent the email dated 26th March with my Request for Warrant of Control and the reasons why I was now submitting it.

As you are fully aware I did not apply for enforcement immediately from 14 days after the 21st January 2021 as was my prerogative, and was extremely reasonable and courteous to the Claimant in waiting 6 weeks before emailing with notice of my intentions to Request a Warrant of Control. On being notified of their complaint I waited whilst the complaint was being assessed and continually checked if a set aside had been submitted. Only when no notification of the complaint was forthcoming did I submit the Request for Warrant of Control. I would not have sought enforcement if the Claimant had made an application for a set aside.

On the 22nd April 2021 when the Enforcements Section person contacted me for payment, I again asked if a set aside had been submitted as it was a month since last checking when I had submitted the application. They said they would check and rang back 45 minutes later to confirm non had been made so I duly paid the £110.

Contrary to paragraph 7 in their Witness Statement on the N244 application where they state I was aware of their intention to set aside the order, this is totally untrue. At no time has the Claimant made it known to me they were to seek a set aside. They have only done this now as I have submitted the Warrant of Control.

It is interesting to note that the Claimant contacted you on 23rd April 2021, the day after I paid for the Warrant (22nd April) and the very day they would have received notice of the Warrant by first class post, proving that they do receive post the very next day from the court, as they would have done for the order dated 30th November 2020 which would have arrived on 1st December 2020 as mine did.

The fact their legal representative was not present did not affect the outcome of the hearing as the Judge dismissed the case based upon the facts in my Witness Statement. The Claimant had chosen not to respond to my Witness Statement with any written comments in the form of a Supplementary Witness Statement. The costs of £95 I was seeking plus other costs were also detailed in the Witness Statement. There are no material changes to the hearing and therefore no jurisdiction to vary or set aside the order in my opinion.

This is a failure by the Claimant to protect their position by making a late application. The fact that the Claimant has now filed an application, is simply them taking the step that they were always required to do. They cannot now complain that I have begun enforcement or that it was unreasonable to do so when they are the party in breach of a court order.

This application by the Claimant will cause me personally more costs on top of the £110 already paid which the Claimant will be liable for, in my view.

Please can you ensure this email is referred to the presiding Judge who is considering the late application and ask that the Claimant (a serial litigator with its own in house legal team) is not given relief from sanctions against a litigant in person who has done everything right, because this would be unjust.

Umkomaas

perogative

Prerogative. 

Snakes_Belly

Including my hearing in May 2019 there has been at least three different people that are sending out these WS not including JB. They must have quite a turnover which does not augur well for consistency in the paperwork. Unless of course they are work experience  

Le_Kirk

On ringing the court on 12th March 2021 to ensure you had received my email and also to find out if the Claimant had applied for a set aside (which they had not) I was told you wanted my phone number as you wished to speak with me regarding the matter. I have waited over the weeks since then for you to ring or make contact but none has been forthcoming. I have rung the court on a number of occasions since the 12th March to find out if the Claimant had submitted a set aside and if you still wanted to speak with me. Each time I was told the Claimant had not submitted a set aside and you would ring me.

This is confusing to me; it may not be confusing to the person to whom you have addressed it.  If you phone somebody and they say they want your phone number because they want to speak to you, why did they not just speak to you whilst you were on the phone to them?

lyndonp59

Le_Kirk said:

On ringing the court on 12th March 2021 to ensure you had received my email and also to find out if the Claimant had applied for a set aside (which they had not) I was told you wanted my phone number as you wished to speak with me regarding the matter. I have waited over the weeks since then for you to ring or make contact but none has been forthcoming. I have rung the court on a number of occasions since the 12th March to find out if the Claimant had submitted a set aside and if you still wanted to speak with me. Each time I was told the Claimant had not submitted a set aside and you would ring me.

This is confusing to me; it may not be confusing to the person to whom you have addressed it.  If you phone somebody and they say they want your phone number because they want to speak to you, why did they not just speak to you whilst you were on the phone to them?

My son spoke to somebody in the court general enquiries first. When he mentioned why he was ringing they said that there had been a discussion about his case and the person dealing with the VCS complaint was going to speak with him later, which implied that day, however she never did contact him at all ever.

Now you highlight it I think my grammar in "...to ensure you had received my email..." should, be changed to "..to ensure my email had been received" (changed now, thanks)

Hope that clarifies it.

(I think my son  must have the court phone number as his top number dialled!)