IHT question about pensions

AnotherJoe

beavere38 said:

Thanks AnotherJoe My sister passed before mum did. I need to wait 2 months for a will search through Certainty before I can apply for a grant of administration to start sorting my sister's estate out and if there is no will found then mum inherits my sister's estate under the intestacy rules. Do I need to wait to resolve my sisters estate before I can start to sort out mum's estate?

You don't need to wait to resolve sisters before you START on mums estate, but I'd have thought you need to finish sisters before you finish mums? Suppose sister had a  bazillion pounds tucked away and only mentioned in Will?

Sounds to me like you'd be better off auctioning sisters house.  If you do, please don't get conned into "modern method" of auction. Just go via traditional one. . 

xylophone

I don't think I can use a deed of variation as my sister did not have a will.

It is possible to use a DoV in Intestacy.

https://theprobatedepartment.co.uk/deed-of-variation/deed-of-variation-of-intestacy/

beavere38

I'm completely stuck at the moment. I started completing the IHT form for mum's estate and there is nowhere obvious to declare her (possible) inheritance from my sister. I could include it under "Money owed to XXXXX" or "Any other assets not listed". At the end of the day the sum of both estates will be around £300k so miles short of the £650k threshold as mum was widowed.
I did not know I could use a DoV in Intestacy, however until the 56 day will search is complete my sister did not officially die intestate? I don't know whether to call the government helpline or contact my solicitor for advice. I could proceed without mentioning the potential inheritance as I understand revisions to the IHT estimate are not needed if it does not take the estate over the threshold for paying tax? Am I trying to move too fast and I need to sort out my sister's affairs first?

EasySolution

Try IHT 415.

Mojisola

xylophone said:

I don't think I can use a deed of variation as my sister did not have a will.

It is possible to use a DoV in Intestacy.

https://theprobatedepartment.co.uk/deed-of-variation/deed-of-variation-of-intestacy/

Their mother could have made a DOV to pass the OP's sister's estate on but can one by made now that the mother has died?

xylophone

The OP thought that a DoV could not be used in intestacy - link explains that is not the case.

If his sister did die intestate, then he will administer her estate.
She predeceased their mother who would have been her heir in intestacy.
 Their mother has died and the OP is his mother's executor and sole heir.

https://www.redstonewills.com/news/item/what-is-a-deed-of-variation-how-can-it-benefit-you#:~:text=A%20deed%20of%20variation%20is,someone%20who%20did%20not%20inherit.

The sister's estate had not gone to probate or administration when her mother died but as mother survived her daughter by more than five days, mother's estate stood to inherit the assets.

Perhaps it comes down the question of whether the OP as sole heir of his mother can choose to vary the intestacy or whether it would come down to his choosing to vary his mother's will such that (assuming that she did inherit her daughter's estate), the daughter's assets should go to a party or parties other than himself?

The OP mentions that he is being advised by a solicitor so can obtain clarification through that route.

beavere38

I emailed my solicitor to ask for some advice. I asked this:

I started to complete the IHT form for mum's estate. I believe I need to complete form IHT415 as she may have an interest in my sister's estate. It has also been suggested to me that I may be able to use a Deed of Variation so I inherit my sister's estate directly rather than it passing to mum first. This would allow me to finish dealing with mum's estate without having to wait to deal with my sister's first.

 

Am I ok to go ahead and apply for probate to start sorting mum's estate out including completing form IHT415 and would there be any benefit to using a DoV?

 

Are you able to advise me the best route in your opinion to proceed down please?

 

The total value of both estates should be below £325k and mum was widowed so the threshold for IHT should be £650k I believe.

And this was the reply:

The first thing I really need to say is that you need to wait for the results of the Certainty Will Search in connection with your late sister.  Until then you cannot say with any certainty that your mother benefits from your sister’s estate under the Intestacy Rules and, therefore, you cannot vary what she isn’t yet technically entitled to.      

 

I also just want to point out that, given the value you have stated for both your sister’s and mother’s estates, you may be completing the wrong forms.    You will appreciate that you have only instructed us to obtain the Grant of Representation to your late sister’s estate so I cannot advise you in connection with your mother’s estate.  Should you wish our assistance in dealing with your mother’s estate we would be more than happy to help. 

The solicitor is charging £650 + VAT to help me get the grant to deal with my sister's estate, at the time I instructed them mum was still alive and I was acting under my LPOA for mum though we both knew mum was receiving palliative care and had limited time left. Should I just spend the same amount again and instruct them to assist me in getting probate for mum as well? I don't want to get anything wrong and it is complicated when you haven't done this before.

xylophone

You could simply wait to seek probate for your mother's estate until you know the position with respect to your sister?