KFC - £100 charge. 2 hour max stay

jonohake

Received a letter from Civil Enforcement Limited for apparently overstaying. They attached photos of my car time stamped. Apparently was over 2 hour stay by 48 mins. 
the driver and a friend were paying customers at KFC on the day. Reading through the newbie thread makes it seem like that will be more confusion and worry than paying at this point 

What should I do?
Questions: 
- Should I appeal to civil enforcement limited before I hear back from KFC
- should I just pay?
- How do you find out who to appeal to at KFC? Or how would I find out who the actual landowner is?

Fruitcake

You (should) have a few weeks to appeal so always try a landowner complaint first. If that is not forthcoming then send the appeal template in blue from the NEWBIES, unaltered, from the keeper. Do not miss the appeal deadline.
I suggest you edit your post to remove any suggestion about who was driving. Only ever refer to The Driver and The Keeper. 

Complain to the KFC manager and/or CEO. 

Ask the council who pays the non domestic business rates to get a good idea of the landowner. If it goes to court then pay the Land Registry a few quid to get a definitive answer.

There is no requirement to pay a scammer unless a judge says so.

Get pics of the site and signage, and check whether the NTK is or isn't PoFA compliant.

If/when the initial appeal is rejected, make a PoPLA appeal using all the relevant template points available to you from the third post of the NEWBIES.

jonohake

Thanks for the reply  
It's a retail park - I'm sorry I just have no idea how to find out who to ask even at the council? I've never done anything like this before., have you got any idea?
"check whether the NTK is or isn't PoFA compliant." can you let me know how / where I read about that?

Fruitcake

jonohake said:

Thanks for the reply  
It's a retail park - I'm sorry I just have no idea how to find out who to ask even at the council? I've never done anything like this before., have you got any idea?
"check whether the NTK is or isn't PoFA compliant." can you let me know how / where I read about that?

I've never had a PCN in my life. I learned everything I know about this scam from reading up on the subject.

Start with the manager and/or CEO of KFC. Ask the manager of every store on the site.

Do an internet search using the name and address of the retail park to see if a managing agent or landowner is mentioned. It's not much different to looking up the opening times of shops on a retail park website.
Please tell us the name and location as someone here may know about it already.

Search your council website as there is sometimes a list of businesses or give then a ring and ask how you find out.
Whilst you are at it, ask the council planning department if permission was obtained for any ANPR scameras, and advertising consent obtained for signage. Not having the latter is a criminal offence, although only the council can do anything about it.

As for the NTK, compare it line by line with the PoFA. Check that the dates comply and the mandatory wording to hold a keeper liable is present.
There is a link to the PoFA Schedule 4 in the NEWBIES.
Para 8 applies if a NTD was left.
Para 9 applies if no NTD was left.

This assumes the alleged event occurred in England or Wales, and the vehicle is not hired or leased.
You can always post a redacted copy of the NTK here for checking, but ideally you should work this out for yourself so you can better argue your case.

Castle

Does this involve a "drive-thru" KFC; if yes, could it have been used by the driver?

D_P_Dance

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP., it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and in some cases, cancellation.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up,

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/of these Private Parking Companies.

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

jonohake

I've checked and they are a member of BPA. I think that means that the DVLA are allowed to give out my details to them. 
To me it feels like a GDPR violation regardless. 

jonohake

Castle said:

Does this involve a "drive-thru" KFC; if yes, could it have been used by the driver?

Castle said:

Does this involve a "drive-thru" KFC; if yes, could it have been used by the driver?

Yes, it is a drive-thru and could have been used by the driver. 

Fruitcake

jonohake said:

I've checked and they are a member of BPA. I think that means that the DVLA are allowed to give out my details to them. 
To me it feels like a GDPR violation regardless. 

Yes they are BPA members which means they can get keeper data from the DVLA. This is allowed by the UK Government for a small fee. For it to be a GDPR breach you would need to prove the scammers had no right to obtain that data. 

Le_Kirk

jonohake said:

Castle said:

Does this involve a "drive-thru" KFC; if yes, could it have been used by the driver?

Yes, it is a drive-thru and could have been used by the driver. 

If it was a "drive-thru" (horrible spelling!)
1.  how could anybody spend 2 hours 48 minutes there?
2.  how can "driving through" constitute parking?
3.  Was it recent, when all the fast food outlets opened again after lock-down and there were loooong queues? 

Coupon-mad

You don't appear to have read NEWBIES PLEASE READ THESE FAQS FIRST and tried PLAN A?

During lockdown these cameras should be switched off, ideally, so complain to the retail park & please read the sticky thread.  I first wrote it in 2013 - and edit it every few months - and it's there up the top of the forum for a reason!  All you need to know is there, including the template appeal to stop people blabbing about who was driving, if PLAN A fails.