Am I entitled to more furlough?

unholyangel

Jeremy535897 said:

unholyangel said:

Jeremy535897 said:

You are probably a variable pay employee if your overtime varies each pay period, not a fixed rate employee.

Overtime has absolutely nothing to do with whether someone is a fixed rate employee or not. Overtime only factors in when calculating their reference salary after you have established whether they are fixed rate or not. 

Whether someone is a fixed rate employee is determined solely on their basic hours. 

It depends on how the contract is worded. I did say "probably", as the majority of people on overtime on this forum seem to have been treated as non fixed rate employees..

It depends on what the contract says about basic hours - not what it says about overtime. Overtime doesn't come into that question (of whether you're fixed rate or not) at all.

People have been misunderstanding the scheme from the start - including that an employee whose pay varies means they might get paid £500 one week and £550 the next due to overtime or commission. They're been approaching it from "does your pay vary? if yes then you're variable" when that is the wrong approach. The correct approach is:

Are they a fixed rate employee (as laid out in the direction - based on the basic hours)?
If yes use fixed rate method - salary as of last pay period before 19th march
If no use variable pay method - either averaged salary or same pay period during 19/20 year, whichever is greater. 

Now you know which periods you need to look it. The next step is which payments you need to look at - anything that is "regular wages" - as defined by the direction. It is here that overtime comes into play. Not before. 

Jeremy535897

unholyangel said:

Jeremy535897 said:

unholyangel said:

Jeremy535897 said:

You are probably a variable pay employee if your overtime varies each pay period, not a fixed rate employee.

Overtime has absolutely nothing to do with whether someone is a fixed rate employee or not. Overtime only factors in when calculating their reference salary after you have established whether they are fixed rate or not. 

Whether someone is a fixed rate employee is determined solely on their basic hours. 

It depends on how the contract is worded. I did say "probably", as the majority of people on overtime on this forum seem to have been treated as non fixed rate employees..

It depends on what the contract says about basic hours - not what it says about overtime. Overtime doesn't come into that question (of whether you're fixed rate or not) at all.

People have been misunderstanding the scheme from the start - including that an employee whose pay varies means they might get paid £500 one week and £550 the next due to overtime or commission. They're been approaching it from "does your pay vary? if yes then you're variable" when that is the wrong approach. The correct approach is:

Are they a fixed rate employee (as laid out in the direction - based on the basic hours)?
If yes use fixed rate method - salary as of last pay period before 19th march
If no use variable pay method - either averaged salary or same pay period during 19/20 year, whichever is greater. 

Now you know which periods you need to look it. The next step is which payments you need to look at - anything that is "regular wages" - as defined by the direction. It is here that overtime comes into play. Not before. 

I don't disagree, but a lot of people don't read their contracts of employment, so think they have basic guaranteed basic hours when it may only be indicative.
It can of course lead to some very unfair results, for example if you did an unusually high amount of overtime in the relevant pay period, or you did none when you normally do a lot. This could be why a lot of employers use the average rate, although if overtime was high in the previous year's equivalent pay period, it still throws up an odd result (but always in the employee's favour).

sharpe106

I thought it was quite strange to basically give people a bonus for previously working overtime. Then I also thought it was strange paying for shift allowances when they are not working any shifts. 

Jeremy535897

sharpe106 said:

I thought it was quite strange to basically give people a bonus for previously working overtime. Then I also thought it was strange paying for shift allowances when they are not working any shifts. 

I get the impression that the government thought (and indeed said) that almost everyone got paid the same amount every month. If they did, why do they need to distinguish between fixed rate and other employees, as averaging a fixed rate employee's salary over the past 12 months would produce a similar result to the payday before 20 March 2020 by definition. It just wouldn't fully factor in pay rises and promotions (but then non fixed rate employees could and do complain that the average method doesn't do this for them either). The whole thing morphed into an employee income support scheme, and that is why we have the mess we do now.

PaulIngle

Paul I
Does anyone know if workers who go into lockdown by town, city or region, are going to be able to sign back into furlough if they can’t go in to work ounce  more? For example if Leicester folk can’t work at the moment, then has the Government put any provisions in place ie temporary furlough?

Grumpy_chap

Right at the moment, assuming you were originally furloughed before 10th June, then the flexible furlough would allow you to go back to temporary furlough if there is a local lockdown. 
That will not cover you if you were never furloughed before, or new starter etc.
There has been nothing said about short local lockdowns if they are after the end of the current furlough scheme.

sharpe106

If you were not furloughed and going to work during the national lock down  I would assume you would still be working during the local lock downs. 

wmggs

@unholyangel @Jeremy535897 how do you define varied pay and fixed rate pay?

Jeremy535897

Fixed rate employees are defined in the Treasury Direction at paragraph 19:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/895778/Further_Treasury_Direction_made_on_25_June_2020_under_Sections_71_and_76_of_the_Coronavirus_Act_2020.pdf

Employees I describe as variable pay employees are all employees except fixed rate employees.