Parking Charge Notice (No Stopping)

skip999

Hi all,

Apologies if this has been covered previously. I have searched the forum and can’t seem to find anything relating to this although I have read other threads in relation to parking charge notices.

Ok, so a driver I know received a parking charge notice for an area of private land that stipulated no stopping. I am trying to gain some advice on what grounds to appeal that the ticket is an unfair charge. From what I’ve read so far including the IPC code of conduct (as the company is registered with IPC), I feel my best chances are the following.

1. The notice to keeper didn’t state a verified address in order to identify the land where the alleged breach took place. It states “cobbled road”... no postcode etc so when you use google maps or similar there is no such address as cobbled road (granted I assume because it’s private land). With this in mind is it even a lawful notice if the driver is unable to determine the location of the breach from the lack of address?

2. The notice to keeper didn’t state the period of alleged breach of contract, only the time of issue. Therefore how can one reasonably determine if they are liable if it doesn’t state for how long the breach was for? Even on a no stopping charge there surely must be a reasonable allowed time to stop in order to read the t&c’s to determine if you want to accept or not?

3. in any case, the code of conduct states “Before a parking charge I issued, motorists must be allowed a grace period of 10 minutes save and except where 13.3 is applicable. A Grace period is a 10 minute period at the end of a permitted period of parking”

        13.3 states...” A grace period is not required when the permitted period of parking does not exceed 1 hour providing that the signage makes it clear to the motorist in a prominent font that no Grace Period applies on that land”

The above point is what I’m struggling to interpret. Should grace periods apply where no stopping signs are enforced or does it just relate to actual parking? And in regards to the prominent font part, should the sign have the text “no grace period” or just wording that implies no grace period? Like 8 say, hard to interpret. When the driver actually managed to work out where this charge was for given the lack of address, I went a took a couple of Images of the signs in place. No where does it state no grace period applies so is there an angle of technicality I can use with regards that?  Below is  a copy of the images to see what you think in relation to the code of conduct text above. ality


Finally, if anyone has any other suggestions or experience with theses in relation to NO STOPPING charges then I would appreciate some advice.

 Sorry it’s a bit lonG winded but look forward to hearing opinions. 

Thanks

Umkomaas

Here's a pretty current UKCPS 'No Stopping' thread. It may not be the same location as your case, but the advice there is completely applicable to you. It will need a Judge to determine whether UKCPS are entitled to your money. Apart from trying to get the landowner to intervene and have the charge cancelled, Court is the only other place available to you. 

Have you complained to your MP about this unregulated scam?

Why not email the DVLA and asked them why they've released your details for a 'Stopping' charge, which has nothing to do with 'Parking'? Ask them what 'reasonable cause' (that's a specific phrase you must use) did UKCPS show on their request for your personal details. 

skip999

Thanks for your response. There doesn’t appear to be a link to the thread you suggest? 

I did read about the DVLA query somewhere but admittedly forgot about this so thanks for reminding me, I’ll do that now. 

Fruitcake

In all cases, the PoFA 2012 states that when a NTD and/or an NTK is given: -

"(2) The notice must—

(a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;"

I suggest the keeper sends the appeal template in blue from the first post of the NEWBIES, and adds a one liner pointing out the problems with the NTK and stating that the keeper cannot therefore be held liable. If a NTD was given and the same problem exists, point that out as well.

Highlight any other PoFA failures as well. Check the dates and wording of the PoFA and compare it line by line with the NTK to work out where else it fails.

Complain to the IPC that a non PoFA compliant NTK was sent.

Complain to the DVLA as advised. 

Complain to the landowner if that is a viable option.

Complain to the keeper's MP.

I think the signs are forbidding as well.

Fruitcake

skip999 said:

Thanks for your response. There doesn’t appear to be a link to the thread you suggest? 

I did read about the DVLA query somewhere but admittedly forgot about this so thanks for reminding me, I’ll do that now. 

It's possibly this thread.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/76505695#Comment_76505695

Fruitcake

In your complaints, use the relevant parts of the POFA that refer to payments and parking period. For example.

"(b) inform the keeper that the driver is required to pay parking charges in respect of the specified period of parking and that the parking charges have not been paid in full;

Point out that the PoFA specifically refers to parking and parking periods. The scammers have helpfully admitted that the charge was not issued for a parking event but for an alleged "no stopping" event. There is no period of parking specified on the signs or the NTK because no parking event occurred. The scammers had no business obtaining keeper data for a non-parking event, and have not complied with the PoFA because stopping is not within the remit of the Act.

skip999

Fruitcake said:

In all cases, the PoFA 2012 states that when a NTD and/or an NTK is given: -

"(2) The notice must—

(a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;"

I suggest the keeper sends the appeal template in blue from the first post of the NEWBIES, and adds a one liner pointing out the problems with the NTK and stating that the keeper cannot therefore be held liable. If a NTD was given and the same problem exists, point that out as well.

Highlight any other PoFA failures as well. Check the dates and wording of the PoFA and compare it line by line with the NTK to work out where else it fails.

Complain to the IPC that a non PoFA compliant NTK was sent.

Complain to the DVLA as advised. 

Complain to the landowner if that is a viable option.

Complain to the keeper's MP.

I think the signs are forbidding as well.

Thank you for your response. May I ask what reasons you think the signs are forbidden? 

Thanks 

KeithP

May I ask what reasons you think the signs are forbidden? 

A sign that states "No Stopping" is clearly not inviting someone to stop and by doing so creating a contract with the driver to stop.

The sign is a forbidding sign. Therefore there can be no contract to stop/park. It follows that there can be no agreement to pay a charge for stopping. As there is no contract, there can be no breach of a contract.

Umkomaas

skip999 said:

Thanks for your response. There doesn’t appear to be a link to the thread you suggest? 

I did read about the DVLA query somewhere but admittedly forgot about this so thanks for reminding me, I’ll do that now. 

So sorry, I meant to include the link. I see that Fruitcake has now - that's exactly the one to which I was referring. 

For the DVLA use both of the following:

ccrt@dvla.gov.uk

KADOEservice.support@dvla.gov.uk 

skip999

KeithP said:

May I ask what reasons you think the signs are forbidden? 

A sign that states "No Stopping" is clearly not inviting someone to stop and by doing so creating a contract with the driver to stop.

The sign is a forbidding sign. Therefore there can be no contract to stop/park. It follows that there can be no agreement to pay a charge for stopping. As there is no contract, there can be no breach of a contract.

Ok thank you, I understand now. 

I wonder if this would be largely dependent on what judge you get on the day as to whether they agree With this (assuming it went that far)  

Umkomaas

skip999 said:

KeithP said:

May I ask what reasons you think the signs are forbidden? 

A sign that states "No Stopping" is clearly not inviting someone to stop and by doing so creating a contract with the driver to stop.

The sign is a forbidding sign. Therefore there can be no contract to stop/park. It follows that there can be no agreement to pay a charge for stopping. As there is no contract, there can be no breach of a contract.

Ok thank you, I understand now. 

I wonder if this would be largely dependent on what judge you get on the day as to whether they agree With this (assuming it went that far)  

Everything in the Small Claims Court relies on the Judge agreeing with one side or the other. We've seen all but identical cases judged in opposite directions. Colloquially known as 'Judge Bingo'!