Section 75 rejected

harsh_but_fair

what is a china shop ?

eskbanker

harsh_but_fair said:

what is a china shop ?

So you obviously know what bull is!

harsh_but_fair

Yes the centre of a dartboard everybody knows that

stokesy1966

The itinerary has my daughter's name at the top.  This didn't raise any red flags at the time as she was the one travelling and would be taking copies of that itinerary with her - it wouldn't make sense for her to have to try and resolve on potential hiccups whilst travelling with an itinerary that didn't have her name on.  As far as an invoice goes, I don't think I've seen any documentation that actually said the word 'invoice' on it anywhere.  The printed documentation all just refers to a booking reference (although it does include the total cost, the deposit paid and the balance outstanding). At no point did Trailfinders state (or even imply) that the contract was between them and her.  Had that been the case then we'd have used a credit card in her name.  I am firmly of the belief that the contract is in my name because Trailfinders used the existing account details they had on their system from when I booked a family trip a few years back.  All they asked for was a contact e-mail for my daughter.  
I understand that her name is on the ticket and as such she can be viewed as a beneficiary.  However, I am also a beneficiary in that by paying for her to go on this trip I save myself hundreds of pounds over the next 3 months by not having to feed, clothe, drive and generally fund her lifestyle whilst she was away.  
The whole beneficiary aspect of this is a grey area as far as I'm concerned, even though zx81 was pretty clear it was absolutely black and white ..........

One other thing.  If Lloyds are saying no to a Section 75 claim (due to the primary beneficiary being my daughter), does that prevent me from going down the Chargeback route ??  Do the same rules apply to both routes for seeking recovery ??

eskbanker

Section 75 simply gives the cardholder the same rights against the card provider as they have against the supplier, for breach of contract or misrepresentation, so the existence, parties and terms of the contract are pivotal issues.  In order to demonstrate breach of contract, you have to supply evidence of the contract (in somewhat more detail than proof of payment) and so you need to round up all relevant documentation - invoices will usually be significant but other documents may be applicable, the key thing being to demonstrate to the card company that you are the contracting party, rather than stating that it's your belief.

Edit: re your update while I was typing, chargeback doesn't have the same reliance on contracting parties as s75 so maybe a route to pursue if you can't make s75 stick, but chargeback could only recover what you paid by card, which would complicate your partial card payment scenario.

harsh_but_fair

I would like to repeat what I said before that Lloyds Bank should be challenged on what they have said and you should submit a complaint

The FOS for example upheld a complaint to them where Mrs K booked and paid for 6 flights on her credit card for herself family and parents - when the airline failed she was refunded for all tickets, not just hers.

I am assuming that the invoice from TF was in your name (not your daughter's)  even though your daughter was the named passenger and that the trip was a gift for her. In my opinion this would be covered.

"As a wedding anniversary present for her parents, Mrs K paid for them to join her and her husband, together with their two children, on a holiday in Florida. She used her credit card to buy six return flights, at a total cost of £2,890.50."

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/86/86-consumer-credit.htm&ved=2ahUKEwiop4iX_6HqAhXJYcAKHUDMDqM4ChAWMAd6BAgBEAE&usg=AOvVaw3QS08elerRLIYWVojQSfCZ

eskbanker

harsh_but_fair said:

I would like to repeat what I said before that Lloyds Bank should be challenged on what they have said and you should submit a complaint

The FOS for example upheld a complaint to them where Mrs K booked and paid for 6 flights on her credit card for herself family and parents - when the airline failed she was refunded for all tickets, not just hers.

I am assuming that the invoice from TF was in your name (not your daughter's)  even though your daughter was the named passenger and that the trip was a gift for her. In my opinion this would be covered.

"As a wedding anniversary present for her parents, Mrs K paid for them to join her and her husband, together with their two children, on a holiday in Florida. She used her credit card to buy six return flights, at a total cost of £2,890.50."

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/86/86-consumer-credit.htm&ved=2ahUKEwiop4iX_6HqAhXJYcAKHUDMDqM4ChAWMAd6BAgBEAE&usg=AOvVaw3QS08elerRLIYWVojQSfCZ

That case is a different issue - nobody is saying that s75 claims can't include an entire party as long as the primary cardholder is among them.  The issue here is that the card company are asserting that the primary cardholder isn't the contracting party, and OP doesn't seem to have anything to contradict this in any documentary way - the lack of an actual invoice is already covered in previous posts above....

stokesy1966

Right now I'm thinking that my next course of action is to take the fight back to Trailfinders.  I'm pretty sure if I ring them on Monday and ask them who they have as the counterparty on the contract then they'll say my daughter (as everything is addressed to her).  I've gone through all the paperwork gain this morning to ensure I've not overlooked anything and there is nothing that I have in my file that would constitute an invoice.  So as Eskbanker says, I think Lloyds have me over a barrel due to Trailfinders naming my daughter as the counterparty, despite the fact that it was me sat in front of them, with my account details already held on their system, me discussing and agreeing to the content of the package, confirming that yes I wanted to buy said package and then paying for it using my card.  Thanks, Trailfinders, for failing to mention this very important piece of information out whilst I was sat in their office.

So I now have to get written proof that my insurer won't pay out (I know they'll decline  and why should they pay when the breach of contract is on Trailfinders part) before I then write to Trailfinders once again and battle through their refunds/compensation department.  I can see this ending up in small claims court the way things are going ....

PS And yes, chargeback is probably a waste of time given that it will only partially resolve the issue.