Forced to use up holiday entitlement, then made redundant.

Doyle23

My employer put me on the furlough scheme at the beginning of April. On 28 May I received a letter informing me that I would be remaining on the scheme throughout the summer and possibly until the scheme ends in October.

On 5 June I received a request from my company asking me to take 13 days holiday between the 1 and 24 July (I’m aware that legally they are entitled to do this as long as they give double the amount of requested leave as notice, which they did). I did not respond to this request.

On the 17 June I was told my role was being considered for redundancy and I was entering a consultation period with my company.

On the 22 June I was told it was highly unlikely they be able to find a role for me elsewhere in the company and that I was to be made redundant. It was at this point I questioned the legality of the company requesting we take our accrued holiday and suggested to them that it was done to reduce the cost of the redundancy arrangements. This was verbally confirmed by the MD of the company during the call.

My question is, where do I stand legally on this? Can my employer do this? Can I force them to pay me for the holiday or can I make a claim?

Masomnia

Annoying but not illegal provided that they paid the annual leave dates at your normal rate of pay.

sharpe106

Most companies unless they actually need you to actually work during notice period make you take your leave, why pay you for it when you are just hanging around to go and being unproductive as most staff will be when they know they are going. Even more likely to when you are on furlough. 

TBagpuss

Perfectly legal and fair. They can require you to take your holiday. IF you are furloughed you will be paid at your fill rate (not 80%) for the holiday periods.
It's very common to require employees to take holiday during their notice period if they are leaving for whatever reason, unless the employer needs them to work their notice period.
Yes, it reduces the cost of the redundancies which is an entirely reasonable thing for an employer to be seeking to do - especially now when they are presumably making redundancies because they are seeing a financial turn down, why on earth would you expect them to pay out more than they need to? Normally they would be balancing the value of your work during the notice period against the cost of paying out your accrued holiday, in this situation where you are furloughed so not providing them with anything of value, it's a no-brainer.
I understand that you would rather have the money, but in this scenario you don't get to choose, and they are doing nothing inappropriate. 

wolvoman

TBagpuss said:

Perfectly legal and fair. They can require you to take your holiday. IF you are furloughed you will be paid at your fill rate (not 80%) for the holiday periods.
It's very common to require employees to take holiday during their notice period if they are leaving for whatever reason, unless the employer needs them to work their notice period.
Yes, it reduces the cost of the redundancies which is an entirely reasonable thing for an employer to be seeking to do - especially now when they are presumably making redundancies because they are seeing a financial turn down, why on earth would you expect them to pay out more than they need to? Normally they would be balancing the value of your work during the notice period against the cost of paying out your accrued holiday, in this situation where you are furloughed so not providing them with anything of value, it's a no-brainer.
I understand that you would rather have the money, but in this scenario you don't get to choose, and they are doing nothing inappropriate. 

OK follow on question.
I am being made redundant with 12 weeks notice. I am working the first 4 and then being paid PILON for the remaining 8. I accept that my company could ask/force me to take leave during the first 4 weeks of working my notice (though I have work to do), but can they force leave during the PILON period? In other words, can they just deduct remaining holiday completely from the PILON payment?

gwynlas

There would be little leave remaining as having not worked the full year you would only be entitled to holidays accrued to date.

wolvoman

gwynlas said:

There would be little leave remaining as having not worked the full year you would only be entitled to holidays accrued to date.

To add more specifics.
25 days annual entitlement, from January 1st to December 31st. As of now I've taken 6 days.
My notice of redundancy was given on 10th July - 12 weeks notice. Required to work the first 4 weeks to 7th August then being paid PILON for a further 8 weeks (my notice would run to 9th October without PILON)

Do you still accrue holiday during the PILON period? I'd presume so. On that basis, and assuming I take no leave during my next 4 weeks of actual working, I will have accrued approx 19 days by my end of notice. Minus the 6 days already taken, leaves me with 13 days of remaining leave.

I know my employer can ask/force me to take leave during notice period whilst still working. But can they enforce/take leave entitlement for the period that is being PILON'd?

lincroft1710

Advice from various sites on Google suggests that your leave entitlement does not accrue after your actual last date of service. So for the period you are paid PILON, there is no leave accrual. However your employment contract may say differently and some employers will calculate pay to reflect any leave entitlement which may accrue during the PILON period.

As you are no longer working for the company during your PILON period I cannot see how they can make you take leave during this time

JCS1

Think this has been discussed before, if PILON and holiday pay you would be paid twice for the holidays.  In a normal month when you take holidays, you don't get your usual monthly salary + holidays on top.

Masomnia

You don't accrue leave during what would have been your notice period as you are no longer employed when given PILON. If there is no PILON clause in your contract you could argue it's a breach of contract but I'm not sure that even then you can claim the holiday pay as had you been given the notice and kept employed they would have required you to take the leave anyway.