Parking Charge Notice on my own parking space, no ticket

HetB

HetB said:

Coupon-mad said:

HetB said:

I've removed some personal information above? Is that what you meant? But the appeal above is what I sent to the company originally - so that is already sent. Should I remove my appeal with the IAS then? I will reply further to the other comments, but I am attending a funeral very shortly. Huge apologies, all the acronyms are difficult to follow, but I will attempt to decipher later. I appreciate any help. Best

Why did you appeal to the IAS?    Eeeek, no-one does that!  

Please don't tell us you PAID £15 for a non standard appeal (please no)?

 I ticked a box saying driver

Oh no, and yet your appeal was based on the POFA...

i hope you didn't pay £15 for a (late) non standard IAS appeal.  Please tell us you didn't.

Sorry for the delay - I have been extremely busy at work. I have until today to complete an appeal to the IAS - I haven't finished it. I had registered before seeking help from this forum. I went to the IAS because PCM, wrote: "If you believe this decision is incorrect, the Independent Appeals Service (www.theIAS.org) provides an Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme for disputes of this type. As you have complied with our internal appeals procedure you may use, and we will engage with, the IAS Standard Appeals Service providing you lodge an appeal to them within 21 days of this rejection.".... So I was desperate to get it registered in time. My MP has advised I go down the POPLA route, but I don't think PCM UK engages with them? Why would they not have suggested POPLA in their letter???

And the £15 is a charge that the company that the vans are leased from are just lifting from my salary this month for "admin" fully returned if my appeal works... Basically it must be written somewhere in my contract... But it seems ridiculous they can charge for "admin" when it can be fully refunded.

HetB

So on May 6th the company which leases the vans wrote - "Please be advised that we give authorisation for our customer to dispute the above mentioned Penalty Charge Notice. We are the registered keeper of the vehicle, which is on a longer term lease to our customer [name and address]"
In answer to the question about the ballot - I am waiting on the letting agency to get back to me. But this ballot (if it happened) would have happened before I moved in, I have only been here a year. 
If I should not appeal to IAS - then who do I appeal to? Should I still appeal to the IAS today as a hoop jumping exercise? 
I think it makes most sense to appeal as driver? Because if my lease contract supersedes the 'parking contract' then that seems stronger? The fact that I never got a ticket could be a 'he said, she said' case... 

Fruitcake

HetB said:

And this is what my MP advised:
Parking enforcement on private land is quite complicated, but there are ultimately 2 sets of recourse available. An appeal against the fine issued needs to be made to Parking on Private Lands Appeals (POPLA) who can adjudicate on the matter: https://www.popla.co.uk/. Albeit appeals are on hold at the moment, you are still able to register your appeal which should then put a stop to the fine increasing in price whilst they appeal takes place. So i would advise that you submit this as soon as possible. The Conduct of the operator can separately be reported to their regular, which will  either be BPA or IPC.

I wouldn’t want to speculate, but if your appeal has been rejected by PCM, it would seem you have good evidence to make an appeal to the adjudicator on this mater (POPLA). If there are any issues in submitting this appeal for registration, please let us know and we will certainly do what we can to ensure that you are able to access this service. It might also prove fruitful to contact the regulators separately at some point who would be better placed to investigate any potential malpractice and we can certainly help follow up your reports if they are not responded to or if delays commence.

I hope this helps to advise how best to start the appeals process, but of course we are happy to offer any further advice on this should you face any difficulties with the process.

Your MP is clueless.

It is not a fine, and by calling it such your MP is giving it an air of legitimacy it does not have, as well as showing a level of ignorance concerning a civil matter.

Your lease/AST has primacy of contract over anything an unregulated parking scammer has to say. The scammers should not be allowed to demand money with menaces from legitimate residents who already have a right to park. You shouldn't need to appeal to a third party who has no contractual right to charge you for your demised parking space. 

PoPLA is not available to you since the scammers are not BPA members. The IPC trade association's second stage appeal system is not independent or impartial and routinely rejects over 80% of appeals.

You want your MP's help to fight this unfair unregulated practice, not encourage you to use an appeals system operated by an industry that her/his fellow MPs unanimously declared across all parties are rogues, scammers, and bloodsuckers.

You are protected by the Landlord and Tenant Act, and you expect your MP to support you in upholding the law and rights of her/his constituents.
This rogue parking company is trying to interfere with your existing rights, and you want you MP to help.

Fruitcake

HetB said:

So on May 6th the company which leases the vans wrote - "Please be advised that we give authorisation for our customer to dispute the above mentioned Penalty Charge Notice. We are the registered keeper of the vehicle, which is on a longer term lease to our customer [name and address]"
In answer to the question about the ballot - I am waiting on the letting agency to get back to me. But this ballot (if it happened) would have happened before I moved in, I have only been here a year. 
If I should not appeal to IAS - then who do I appeal to? Should I still appeal to the IAS today as a hoop jumping exercise? 
I think it makes most sense to appeal as driver? Because if my lease contract supersedes the 'parking contract' then that seems stronger? The fact that I never got a ticket could be a 'he said, she said' case... 

You can either appeal/defend as driver because your lease/AST has primacy of contract over a third party scammer, or appeal/defend as hirer/lessee if the scammers have not followed paras 13 and 14 of the PoFA.

Personally I would favour the lease/AST approach as it can be used over and over again, and used by other residents as well.

If a ballot of tenants occurred before you moved in, your lease/AST should have reflected this change. Not informing you would be a case of negligence on the part of the lessor.

If the ballot happened after you moved in, you should have been given the opportunity to object.

I doubt it was carried out which gives you ammunition to go after the MA or whoever employed the scammers, since they breached the L & T Act making themselves jointly liable and culpable for the actions of the scammers. You should warn the MA that you will require them to nominate a representative to be called as a witness should this get to court, and they will also be liable to any and all claims/counterclaims against them for any DPA/GDPR breaches.

I think you need to be hammering the MA, pointing out the consequences should this not be cancelled, and should the scammers target you again. Make sure they understand the requirements of the L % T Act and the consequences of breaching it. 

I can't advise you whether you should or shouldn't use the IAS kangaroo court. That may depend on what the MA say or do as a result of your complaints.

The more residents that complain and threaten, the more likely something will be done. Many residential areas set up fightback groups using social media, and I think some have even taken over the MA.

Umkomaas

You could do worse than copy what @Fruitcake has written about what your MP should be doing for you and send directly to him. 

Le_Kirk

Umkomaas said:

You could do worse than copy what @Fruitcake has written about what your MP should be doing for you and send directly to him. 

I would miss out the bit about them being clueless though!

Umkomaas

Le_Kirk said:

Umkomaas said:

You could do worse than copy what @Fruitcake has written about what your MP should be doing for you and send directly to him. 

I would miss out the bit about them being clueless though!

.... suitably edited! 😊

Half_way

I would respontd to the MP stating that POPLA is not an option with PCM, as their own private members trade association, who are there to represent the views and protect the parking industry ( as opposed to the motorist) operate a scheme called IAS, which is overseen by the same people who oversee the private members trade association. any further threats of debt collection/legal action is then initiated and carried out by the same people who  oversee the private members trade association.

 in essence any independent appeal is impossible due to a conflict of interests at all levels.

HetB

This is my appeal to IAS for what it's worth - I've not sent it yet. But I wanted to check - is there any harm in appealing to them? Earlier it was said I should post anything I plan to send on this forum to be checked... (and by the way thanks again for all the advice!)

Dear Sir/Madam,

I rent a flat with a car parking space. The letting agency at the start of the tenancy said I didn’t need a permit (I had explicitly asked) and the requirement of a permit is not written into our tenancy agreement. See relevant details here: 

 

15. Cars and Parking
15.1. To park in the car parking space, garage or driveway allocated to the Premises, if applicable. 

15.2. To keep any garage, driveway, or parking space free of oil and to pay for the removal and cleaning of any spillage caused by a vehicle of the Tenant, his family, contractors or visitors.

15.3. To remove all vehicles belonging to the Tenant, his family or visitors at the end of the Tenancy. 

15.4. Not to park any vehicle at the Premises that is not in road worthy condition and fully taxed. 

My tenancy agreement in law supersedes any supposed 'contract' in question with PCM parking. I was wholly unaware of PCM’s request for a parking permit to be displayed. It is a parking space that I pay for as part of my tenancy agreement. So I am not paying this Parking Charge Notice. But out of courtesy, I have acquired a permit, and I am now displaying it. 

As the driver of the vehicle, I also never received the Parking Charge Notice in question, which was allegedly stuck to the window screen of the van on the Friday. I was only aware of one ticket from the Sunday (same weekend), which the letting agency dealt with on my behalf. So, despite knowing who the driver of the vehicle was (given the correspondence over the one ticket I found stuck to the van on the Sunday), PCM still pursued the keeper of the vehicle – delaying any knowledge of the ticket I never received. IF two tickets were on the vehicle, obviously I would have dealt with them at the same time – anyone would have. But there was only one so that shows it was either never issued, or at best must have been removed. This is clear malpractice by PCM. And I have been reliably informed that the original ticket should never have been paid for by the letting agency either, given my tenancy agreement. 

 

I therefore have contacted my MP on this matter who is helping me with my case, and says this is a “bizarre” situation, given that I deserve the right to live peacefully in my home and use my space, as per the terms of my tenancy agreement. Furthermore, PCM UK should exist to protect mine and other resident’s parking spaces from rogues parking there. So I am disappointed this doesn’t seem to be the case. 

Given all the above, I am therefore writing to inform you that I will not be paying this 'charge' and I request this appeal to be upheld.

Yours faithfully, 

Le_Kirk

I think you should put dates rather than: -

window screen windscreen of the van on the Friday. I was only aware of one ticket from the Sunday

to make the story clearer and also you should try to use Ticket "A" and Ticket "B" to explain what you mean here: -

PCM still pursued the keeper of the vehicle – delaying any knowledge of the ticket I never received. IF two tickets were on the vehicle, obviously I would have dealt with them at the same time – anyone would have. But there was only one so that shows it was either never issued, or at best must have been removed

because at the moment it is confusing to a reader, whereas you know the story and understand it.