PCN issue for space allocated to my business

peterhandford

Hi all, I have a PCN quandary that I hope you could help with. 

I work at a small business that has had two spaces allocated ever since we took up the lease on the office two years ago. 

Recently, they have brought in a new company - Parking and property management ltd -  to manage the development. 

We have been issued with permits to display in our cars when using our allocated spaces.

But these were issued just before the coronavirus lockdown and I have not been in the office to collect mine.

Last week I went to the office for a brief meeting and to collect my permit. I parked in our allocated space and the rest of the carpark was completely empty. 

When I returned (about 35 mins later) the car had been ticketed with a PCN.

I did the online appeal, explaining the situation and providing them with a photo of my valid permit. I naively thought they'd just cancel it. 

But of course it has been declined, so now I either pay, go the IAS route or wait for them to start court proceedings.

I have seen the other advice here but I wasn't sure if my situation is a little different? 

Any advice would be most appreciated. 

Coupon-mad

Recently, they have brought in a new company - Parking and property management ltd -  to manage the development. 
We have been issued with permits to display in our cars when using our allocated spaces.
But these were issued just before the coronavirus lockdown and I have not been in the office to collect mine.

Guess what?  Your firm needed to nip that in the bud and refuse to agree to the change and risk of charges.  You were meant to opt your space out, not accept a permit scheme that causes you all detriment and risk!

You must object, now, to the Managing Agents who foisted this on you and tell them three things:

- PCNs issued in those spaces must be cancelled, and

- you opt out your spaces and refuse and object to the foisting of an aggressive ex-clamper firm on you, which is interfering with your lease.

- introducing PPM was unlawful under the Landlord & Tenant Act and is not allowed under excuse of any 'reasonable regulations for the running of the estate' because this is far from reasonable and would need a variation of the lease and a consensus by the leaseholders first.

Read this similar one (it was about a residential estate but the L&T Act is the same law):

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5997200/pcm-company-introduced

OPT OUT AND GET PPM KICKED OUT NOW.

DoaM

Whilst we still think IAS appeals are almost guaranteed to fail (it's a kangaroo court), I think the feeling now is for people to put in well-worded appeals. As you have provided proof of authority to park there, the PPC should cancel the PCN ... any sensible business would do so. A failed appeal on this basis would further show that the IAS is not fit for purpose.

Ultimately the PPC would need to take you to court (and win) to force you to pay them anything. Their case would be weak and I doubt they'd take the risk.

Plus what C-m said above.

D_P_Dance

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP., it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and in some cases, cancellation. 

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up,

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/of these Private Parking Companies.

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

peterhandford

Thank you for your helpful comments on this.

Bit of an update - I went down the IAS route and that appeal was denied as well. Their reasoning keeps coming back to the fact that no permit was displayed, despite the fact that I have demonstrated that I had a right to park there and it is my place of work. I pursued with the landlord and they couldn't (or wouldn't) do anything about it, so all I could do there was get our parking spaces taken off the scheme - so no one else will get ticketed by these people.

So I left it there and ignored the next request for payment (email) and have now receive this letter from BW Legal.
Does anyone have any advice on how to proceed next please? I notice that it says 'this MAY proceeed to our legal process and the next contact from us COULD BE a pre-action protocol letter', which makes me wonder how serious it is.

All advice is gratefully received!!

Redx

Debt letter so read the fourth post in the newbies FAQ sticky thread near the top of the forum

Come back at LBC stage and read the second post in the newbies FAQ sticky thread

An LBC gives 30 days notice and includes financial forms which you do not fill in

They have 6 years to issue a court claim pack from the CCBC in Northampton

Fruitcake

Ignore it and wait to see if the scammers try court.
Well done on getting the spaces put on an opt out list though. That's a good result in itself. It will also be extremely useful evidence if this does end up in court.

Umkomaas

Does anyone have any advice on how to proceed next please? I notice that it says 'this MAY proceeed to our legal process and the next contact from us COULD BE a pre-action protocol letter', which makes me wonder how serious it is.

'May' is likely to become 'Will', but you won't know until ....

The NEWBIES FAQ sticky, second post, covers any court action the PPC or their solicitors take, commencing at the Letter of Claim stage, one stop further on down your road.  P&PM are litigious. 

How 'serious' is it? A couple of hundred quid - no jail time, no deportation, no public flogging!

peterhandford

Thank you, will read the relevant newbies posts and take it from there.

Out of principle I don't want to give these people any money, but also don't want any hassle either!

Redx

You may not be paying any money but you will definitely get hassle !!

They thrive on hassle and bullying people who do not give in to their demands , it is their business , day after day !!

D_P_Dance

IMO ypu have a slam dunk case, read this

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/324523-ukpc-liable-for-trespass-success/

if they go to court consider a counter claim.