Work reducing my pay while on furlough.

Chris_derby

theoretica said:

The money that the government provide through the furlough scheme is fixed and depends only on what you earned before - and the £2500 limit.  Your work cannot reduce your pay below the £2500 they are claiming from the government.  This would be relevant if 80% of the new shift pattern is less than £2500.

Thanks for the reply. Are you saying that the company can reduce my shifts if I still fall over £2,500 (80% of my salary after the shift change) as they will still be claiming the same amount off the government?

Chris_derby

sharpe106 said:

Without taking it further there is nothing you can do, yes they should have told you but that is only a communication issue, your contract says they can change the shitts etc so your only real argument is a) they did not tell you b) if the changes had not be fair i.e who was changed and who was not. 
As you said they are topping it up to 80% as above the government allowance they can change how much they top you up but can't change the amount claimed. Although what did you agree to when you went on furlough/ if you agreed to a set amount rather then percentage you have a better chance of them not changing the amount. 

Thanks for getting back to me. I think your totally right for point a), that is my argument and I should have been told as stated in my contract, and I think I will be bringing this up on payday if this is the case. And point b) brings us on to another debate, is it fair that the long servers were all picked to stay on the original shift pattern, and the newer people’s names were drawn out of a hat who goes on the new shift pattern and who goes on furlough?

theoretica

Chris_derby said:

theoretica said:

The money that the government provide through the furlough scheme is fixed and depends only on what you earned before - and the £2500 limit.  Your work cannot reduce your pay below the £2500 they are claiming from the government.  This would be relevant if 80% of the new shift pattern is less than £2500.

Thanks for the reply. Are you saying that the company can reduce my shifts if I still fall over £2,500 (80% of my salary after the shift change) as they will still be claiming the same amount off the government?

No quite - I am saying that if the shift change reduces what they would pay you below £2500 they still need to give you the full £2500.  This particular requirement doesn't govern anything happening above the 2500 and what they can and can't do.  It's just a threshold to check.

sharpe106

theoretica said:

Thanks for the reply. Are you saying that the company can reduce my shifts if I still fall over £2,500 (80% of my salary after the shift change) as they will still be claiming the same amount off the government?

They need to carry on claiming whatever they have claimed previously. If they claim a different amount it would look like a fraudulent claim, even though it is not. There is nothing in the rules that allows for pay rises or pay cuts during the furlough period. Otherwise everybody on the NMW would have got an increase when that went up. 

When you went on furlough what did you sign for?

Chris_derby

theoretica said:

Chris_derby said:

theoretica said:

The money that the government provide through the furlough scheme is fixed and depends only on what you earned before - and the £2500 limit.  Your work cannot reduce your pay below the £2500 they are claiming from the government.  This would be relevant if 80% of the new shift pattern is less than £2500.

Thanks for the reply. Are you saying that the company can reduce my shifts if I still fall over £2,500 (80% of my salary after the shift change) as they will still be claiming the same amount off the government?

No quite - I am saying that if the shift change reduces what they would pay you below £2500 they still need to give you the full £2500.  This particular requirement doesn't govern anything happening above the 2500 and what they can and can't do.  It's just a threshold to check.

Yes that’s makes sense, I will look out for that should the issue arise.

sharpe106

Chris_derby said:

Thanks for getting back to me. I think your totally right for point a), that is my argument and I should have been told as stated in my contract, and I think I will be bringing this up on payday if this is the case. And point b) brings us on to another debate, is it fair that the long servers were all picked to stay on the original shift pattern, and the newer people’s names were drawn out of a hat who goes on the new shift pattern and who goes on furlough?

For point A the reality is they can still do it anyway as that what the contract say so all you will be doing is arguing over a technicality. Is it really worth putting yourself at the top of the list for any redundancies when even if you win you will still be in the same position you are now.

 For point B no if they were putting names in a hat everybody name should have been in the hat.

Chris_derby

sharpe106 said:

theoretica said:

Thanks for the reply. Are you saying that the company can reduce my shifts if I still fall over £2,500 (80% of my salary after the shift change) as they will still be claiming the same amount off the government?

They need to carry on claiming whatever they have claimed previously. If they claim a different amount it would look like a fradulant claim, even though it is not. There is nothing  in the rules that allows for pay rises or pay cuts during the furlough period. Otherwise everybody on the NMW would have got an increase when that went up. 

When you went on furlough what did you sign for?

That makes sense also.

Too be honest I’ve signed nothing since I’ve been on furlough. I received a letter from my employer stating what I would received (80% of my salary including shift pay). In the same letter it mentioned about the shift review with changes taking effect at the start of June. But like I say, I’ve had no notification about the outcome of the shift review or if it effects my personal shifts.

Chris_derby

sharpe106 said:

Chris_derby said:

Thanks for getting back to me. I think your totally right for point a), that is my argument and I should have been told as stated in my contract, and I think I will be bringing this up on payday if this is the case. And point b) brings us on to another debate, is it fair that the long servers were all picked to stay on the original shift pattern, and the newer people’s names were drawn out of a hat who goes on the new shift pattern and who goes on furlough?

For point A the reality is they can still do it anyway as that what the contract say so all you will be doing is arguing over a technicality. Is it really worth putting yourself at the top of the list for any redundancies when even if you win you will still be in the same position you are now.

 For point B no if they were putting names in a hat everybody name should have been in the hat.

Yes good point, and it’s more the principle of the whole situation that I’m more bothered about. Although if my payslip comes and what I’ve said is true, then there’s no harm in asking the question and stating that I wasn’t aware of the outcome of the shift review right?

I’m not impressed with the way they have handled the whole situation from the start of the Coronavirus pandemic to be honest. I understand there is going to be cuts and cost saving measures put in place to save the business, but morally they should inform its employees for such changes?

For point b), I also believe it was the wrong way to do things but kept my mouth shut. I think others were upset and probably complained.

sharpe106

You could probably take point b further as you have not been treated fairly. Maybe contact CAB or ACAS and see what they suggest.

theoretica

There could very easily be valid business reasons for keeping the longest serving members as the ones working.  If for instance they are the ones paid more then this would serve to minimise the amount the company needs to pay out to cover furloughed wages to 80%.