Forced Annual Leave

Shelleygo10

Hi
My partners employer has just informed them today that they are taking 1 weeks annual leave from all of them whilst they were furloughed. He is now back at work, can they do this. It was my understanding that they had to give 2 weeks notice prior to the leave being forced upon you. This didn't happen, they are only notifying them after the fact.

[Deleted User]

Technically if they didn't notify correctly then they can not enforce it, it can not be done retrospectively. However it would indicate that the company is trying to cut payroll costs. The other way to cut payroll cuts is to make people redundant, the most "difficult" employees are often the first to be made redundant. 

bradders1983

Echo the above. Does he want to moan about it and possibly put himself at the top of the troublemaker/no promotion/redundancy list? Pick your battles.

Shelleygo10

Thanks Matt, yes I understand that completely. They haven't ceased trading throughout the whole period (although I imagine they were far less busy hence furloughing a portion of their workforce) and my partner was actually asked to furlough so that he could volunteer to cover deliveries for the NHS using their works vehicle. Other employees were just furloughed. The cynic in me might see this as a publicity stunt in order to promote the company as being public spirited during this awful time.

bradders1983

Shelleygo10 said:

 and my partner was actually asked to furlough so that he could volunteer to cover deliveries for the NHS using their works vehicle. 

Hmm, probably not in the spirit of the furlough rules that, but can't imagine HMRC doing much about it.

[Deleted User]

Shelleygo10 said:

The cynic in me might see this as a publicity stunt in order to promote the company as being public spirited during this awful time.

Some companies were generally public spirited, many did it for publicity. Where it possibly could have become even more complicated in that situation is that if it was a works vehicle and he was furloughed he may not have been insured, many companies have not thought through the full implications in their rush to cut costs and gain free publicity. 

[Deleted User]

Companies should not be bullying people this way. This is illegal, they can't retroactively make you take holiday time AND it's fraud if they were claiming furlough because the rules state that they have to pay you in full (100%) themselves for holidays. Furlough can only be used for time when you would have been working.

If you mention that to them it puts you in a strong position because if they retaliate they risk you reporting their crime and getting into serious trouble.

[Deleted User]

[DELETED USER] said:

Companies should not be bullying people this way. This is illegal, they can't retroactively make you take holiday time AND it's fraud if they were claiming furlough because the rules state that they have to pay you in full (100%) themselves for holidays. Furlough can only be used for time when you would have been working.

The holiday retrospectively could be regarded badly, it is not allowed under employment law, but it is not fraud in relation to furlough if they topped up to 100%, which the majority of employers have been doing.

[DELETED USER] said:

If you mention that to them it puts you in a strong position because if they retaliate they risk you reporting their crime and getting into serious trouble.

Technically trying to do that would be classed as blackmail, even in relation to a potential illegal activity, the penalty for breaching the terms about notifying holiday would be a few hundred pounds, the penalty for attempted blackmail/extortion is jail, as well as almost certainly being unemployed, really not worth it for a week's holiday.

Jeremy535897

The 2 weeks notice for holiday can be overridden by the contract of employment. If it isn't, it is contrary to the Working Time Regulations 1998, which can result in a fine.

Employers can ask people on furlough to take their holiday. Most are, as otherwise after a difficult economic period with furloughed employees having effectively been on holiday, the last thing they need is to pay for more holiday. Government guidance requires the payment made to be in line with holiday pay rules, which depend on whether the employee is salaried or has variable pay, and whether it is part of the 4 week core holiday covered by EU case law, or the "bank holiday" 8 days extra. It is not just "100%", although most employers pay this because it simply isn't worth the effort of paying anything else.

If the "volunteering" to deliver to the NHS is fulfilling the employer's contractual obligations for a supply it makes to the NHS, as opposed to a gift to the NHS, that would be in breach of furlough.

Thrugelmir

Shelleygo10 said:

The cynic in me might see this as a publicity stunt in order to promote the company as being public spirited during this awful time.

Don't under estimate the financial pressures that the company will be under. That will be the priority. Publicity doesn't pay the bills. Cash does.