How do I know if I've been paid via CHAPS or BACS?

jay1804

You could use this service https://www.shieldpay.com/personal they charge a fee for the transaction but it gives you protection.

nick74

harsh_but_fair said:

2. Yes indeed -  a few days after receiving the money into your account you could find the 20K withdrawn with the fraudser claiming to their bank that you have scammed them. You will of course reply no I didn't he took my car but either way you will be into a fight of he said she said

It's really not that easy to get a transfer reversed in my experience. I once made a BACS payment to the wrong account number and the best our bank (Lloyds) would do is pass on a message to the recipient via their bank (Natwest) asking if they'd mind awfully paying the money back. The recipient lied to Natwest and told them they'd already paid it back by other means, so in practical terms that was that, money gone for good.

harsh_but_fair

I suspected that if you make a genuine error when you make a payment and then ask your bank to get the money bank they will do their best but as you say it might be a bit difficult

you would get a different reaction if you said fraud was involved

harsh_but_fair

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/forum/topic/5866-faster-payment-recalled/

nick74

harsh_but_fair said:

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/forum/topic/5866-faster-payment-recalled/

The incident referred to there appears to be between two customers who both happened to bank with HSBC, and therefore the payment was processed as a simple transfer between accounts within HSBC, rather than a BACS or faster payment as such. As a result of this it was possible for HSBC for reverse the transaction. The consensus on that thread seems to be that had the payment been an actual faster payment then there would have been no way of the buyer subsequently having it reversed, which is my understanding too.

Perhaps the moral of the story is to accept electronic payments, but never from people who bank with the same bank as you?!

p00hsticks

nick74 said:

harsh_but_fair said:

2. Yes indeed -  a few days after receiving the money into your account you could find the 20K withdrawn with the fraudser claiming to their bank that you have scammed them. You will of course reply no I didn't he took my car but either way you will be into a fight of he said she said

It's really not that easy to get a transfer reversed in my experience. I once made a BACS payment to the wrong account number and the best our bank (Lloyds) would do is pass on a message to the recipient via their bank (Natwest) asking if they'd mind awfully paying the money back. The recipient lied to Natwest and told them they'd already paid it back by other means, so in practical terms that was that, money gone for good.

How long ago was that ?

Although I believe that banks still can't unilaterally reverse the transaction, there's now an agreed process in place between them on how to handle such cases which should make it easier to get your money back

nick74

p00hsticks said:

nick74 said:

harsh_but_fair said:

2. Yes indeed -  a few days after receiving the money into your account you could find the 20K withdrawn with the fraudser claiming to their bank that you have scammed them. You will of course reply no I didn't he took my car but either way you will be into a fight of he said she said

It's really not that easy to get a transfer reversed in my experience. I once made a BACS payment to the wrong account number and the best our bank (Lloyds) would do is pass on a message to the recipient via their bank (Natwest) asking if they'd mind awfully paying the money back. The recipient lied to Natwest and told them they'd already paid it back by other means, so in practical terms that was that, money gone for good.

How long ago was that ?

Although I believe that banks still can't unilaterally reverse the transaction, there's now an agreed process in place between them on how to handle such cases which should make it easier to get your money back

Early 2018 if I remember correctly. I did wonder if it was badly handled by Lloyds at the time as after several months they eventually agreed to refund the money (£800 approx) to us themselves from their own coffers, despite not being able to get anything back from Natwest..

eskbanker

There are two different scenarios being conflated in the above posts.

When someone accidentally sends money to the wrong account then there is a misdirected payments protocol (introduced in 2016) via which the payee is contacted by their bank and asked to consent to the return of the funds, which, as above, isn't a bulletproof process in any way.

A sender alleging fraud or scam by the (intended) recipient is an entirely separate issue, and if taken seriously by the sender's bank, may result in the recipient's account being frozen or the transaction recalled, sometimes without the recipient's consent being sought or obtained....

harsh_but_fair

Thanks eskbanker in making things clear in your usual way which probably I have not been doing

what I have been saying is that although the risk is small if you are dealing with a fraudster then they definitely can get your account frozen and maybe even the payment reversed even though they have have since got hold of your car 

It is really just a matter of what risk you are willing to take.

All this of course begs the question that in this day and age with electronic payments how can one protect oneself and as far as I can see the answer is you cannot unless you take any payment in cash

If I am wrong then I am more than willing to be told of a way to safely take transfers into my current account

[Deleted User]

Supersonos said:

But cash could be counterfeit.  Plus, for the last couple of years, I've tried as hard as possible to not deal with cash at all.

With scenario 1, I've already asked that they come with two forms of ID which I'll be checking.  I've also checked out their address.

Scenario 2, there might be a fight, but I'd win as I'd have the evidence.

With Scenario one, that doesn't mean they aren't scammers and your only real option might be legal action - which would likely be fruitless with professional scammers.

With Scenario two, I can't think of any bulletproof evidence but you clearly know better.