The demise of the triple lock.

Durban

The triple lock should go. These are extraordinary times and the life chances for of a lot of the young are going to be scarred.

I am not young and the triple lock would definitely be to my advantage but I think that the young have been shafted for too long and they are the ones who are going to be paying dearly for this for probably the rest of their lives.

I , as well as a lot of older people have seen great equity in my property over the years.
Free university education. Free milk at school. 

Bus passes , winter fuel allowance , free prescriptions , triple lock , and now covid.  The proportion of elderly to young working age people is getting more and more unequal.

 Of course the burden is going to fall on their shoulders whilst they see their pension age getting further and further away.

Everyone always says " well I've worked all my life and paid my taxes and my national insurance so I deserve it"   I can tell you , the young are going to be paying a hell of a lot more than we ever did.

jimpwarsop

jamesd said:

UK median after all taxes household income was £29,600 at the end of 2019. It's commonly suggested to retire on 66% of working income, so for a single person that it'd be 19,536.  Assuming a 9,000 state pension that's 10,536 to find. At age 65 a single life RPI annuity pays 2.023% of the purchase price at the moment so buying the income that way would cost 520,810.

Why did you switch from "median household income" to a single pensioner ?

The number £19536 is very close to what we spend a year as a retired couple.

MaxiRobriguez

jamesd said:

MaxiRobriguez said:

Wealth is now more concentrated in the older generations than it has been in forever. The triple lock has long since succeeded in it's aims of eradicating pensioner poverty and gone on to supplement already wealthy people who have hoarded the majority of financial assets.

Wealth is supposed to be concentrated with older people. A young person has lots of future years to work and invest for retirement. The retiree no longer has the years but the accumulated capital instead.

UK median after all taxes household income was £29,600 at the end of 2019. It's commonly suggested to retire on 66% of working income, so for a single person that it'd be 19,536.  Assuming a 9,000 state pension that's 10,536 to find. At age 65 a single life RPI annuity pays 2.023% of the purchase price at the moment so buying the income that way would cost 520,810.

I'm not sure that wealth is more concentrated in the older generations than it ever has been and that seems unlikely. Do you have a source?

The triple lock was introduced to reduce the cut in state pension relative to wages that started when the Thatcher government switched to inflation. It's unlikely to  catch up because the new state pension has eliminated the earnings link and will make even lifelong low earners worse off.

I wasn't suggesting the elderly shouldn't have the greatest slice of the pie - clearly they've have longer to earn, compound and gain on assets. It's right older people are wealthier.

What I was suggesting about was that the wealth gap between the generations is greater than it has been ever. Some sources are: 
- https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/dec/08/older-voters-election-2019-assets-tax-labour-tories-social-care
- https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/05/02/baby-boomers-78000-wealthier-people-age-decade-ago/
- https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilhowe/2018/03/16/the-graying-of-wealth/#1ff887dc302d
- https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20181205-with-boomers-wealth-to-inherit-will-millennials-get-rich
- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38957903

But I don't really care about what the "right" slice of the pie is, what I think is wrong is that with that increase in wealth, the vast majority of pensioners now have a very comfortable retirement, nd yet are still in receipt of state pensions that can rise at levels greater than inflation or average wage increases. That wouldn't be a problem if we hadn't just spent ten years in austerity cutting everything, nor would it be a problem if younger people could get on housing ladders with the same ease that previous generations did, or had access to DB pensions which would make their later years comfortable, but they don't. 

Of course, some pensioners aren't comfortable, and there should be some additional support for them.

jimpwarsop

Of course, some pensioners aren't comfortable, and there should be some additional support for them

Not really.

Failure to adequately provide for ones dotage shouldnt be rewarded, just my opinion of course.

woolly_wombat

badmemory said:

They will have no choice but to stop the triple lock despite a recent promise not to.  Even though bread & milk has not so far gone up, my personal inflation rate is almost 10% already with over 3 months of the CPI year to go.  They no longer need pensioners to vote for them as they have broken the red wall, it was going to happen even before the virus hit, that has just cast it in stone.

Of course they have a choice.
It would be extremely foolish to count on the continued support of red wall voters.

JohnB47

Bear in mind that MPs feel that they deserve a pay rise of 3.1% from April this year, as announced in May. Oh, of course it's not they who have determined this - it's an 'independent' body. Appointed by, ahem, MPs.
Can a rise below that, for pensioners this year, be justified?

daveyjp

jimpwarsop said:

Of course, some pensioners aren't comfortable, and there should be some additional support for them

Not really.

Failure to adequately provide for ones dotage shouldnt be rewarded, just my opinion of course.

Hand to mouth wages for many meant a private pension was a pipe dream.

This was recignised with auto enrolment, but the benefits will take 40 years to run through the system and for many who only relied on employer contribution it will be a minimal pension anyway.

eskbanker

JohnB47 said:

Bear in mind that MPs feel that they deserve a pay rise of 3.1% from April this year, as announced in May. Oh, of course it's not they who have determined this - it's an 'independent' body. Appointed by, ahem, MPs.
Can a rise below that, for pensioners this year, be justified?

State pension increased by significantly more than the MP's pay increase this year (3.9% versus 3.1%).

Silvertabby

eskbanker said:

JohnB47 said:

Bear in mind that MPs feel that they deserve a pay rise of 3.1% from April this year, as announced in May. Oh, of course it's not they who have determined this - it's an 'independent' body. Appointed by, ahem, MPs.
Can a rise below that, for pensioners this year, be justified?

State pension increased by significantly more than the MP's pay increase this year (3.9% versus 3.1%).

Never let the facts get in the way of a good rant.

MACKEM99

Wife was watching a programme the other day - something like rich house - poor house.  I was reading but saw part of it where a woman was saying she was very poor.  Her 3 young kids all under the age of 10 had good quality mobile phones in their hands.  Ah that poor are they?