Returning to High Infection Risk Job with Vulnerable Person at Home - any options for staying home?

Digital_Dan

My wife is employed by a large high street chain of opticians. She is currently furloughed due to the Corona Virus pandemic. The nature of her work means that she is in very close proximity (adjusting spectacles etc) to many people during the course of the day. In other words, her occupation means that she is at a higher than average risk of contracting the virus. In the normal of events, the staff frequently get colds and the 'flu. It is an occupational hazard.

I suffer from several health problems and I am classified as 'vulnerable' and have been shielding as advised by the government.

Obviously, we are both concerned that not only may my wife contract Corona Virus but that it could be brought home and I could become infected when she returns to work. My wife's employers are looking to reopen her shop very soon.

My questions are:

1: Can my wife's employers compel her to return to work?

2: Can my wife request remaining on the furlough scheme, even if her place of work is reopened?

3: Is there any legal means that my wife can delay returning to work?

4: If my wife requests a long term leave of absence, are her employers obliged to grant it?.

5: Is there any legislation or government guidance that she could use to argue her case with her employer?

Obviously, my wife will return to work at some point. Given the nature of her employment and my particular vulnerability, she would prefer not to return to work until either a vaccine or effective therapeutic treatment for Corona Virus is available or community transmission is at a much lower level than it is currently.

I would be grateful for any help or advice you can offer. If you can direct me toward any other sources of assistance in this matter, I would be most obliged.

Thanks

Thrugelmir

Rather than jumping to conclusions. Your wife should be speaking to her employer. To ascertain what measures are being put in place. Likewise investigate what measures she needs to take to protect you upon returning from work. 

If somebody doesn't want to work they don't have to, though there's no obligation to be paid. 

calcotti

Digital_Dan said:..I suffer from several health problems and I am classified as 'vulnerable' and have been shielding as advised by the government.

You are not shielding unless you have received the 'shielding' letter informing you that you are extremely vulnerable and advising you to shield.

Digital_Dan said:
 My questions are:

1: Can my wife's employers compel her to return to work?

2: Can my wife request remaining on the furlough scheme, even if her place of work is reopened?

3: Is there any legal means that my wife can delay returning to work?

4: If my wife requests a long term leave of absence, are her employers obliged to grant it?.

5: Is there any legislation or government guidance that she could use to argue her case with her employer?

1. They cannot compel her to return to work but she has no right to be paid if she doesn't.
2. She can ask but employer has to obligation to do so.
3. Not to my knowledge
4. Not to my knowledge, you would have to expect also that any leave of absence granted will be unpaid.
5. Not that I am aware of. The employer does however have to have a strategy for dealing with the coronavirus risks in order to reduce the risk of infection to the extent that it is reasonably practical.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/working-safely-during-coronavirus-covid-19

gary83

I suspect it’s not the answer you want to hear, whilst your wife can ask to remain on the furlough scheme, her company is under no obligation to agree to it, bear in mind that furlough will begin to cost the employer progressively more after July.

an optician is not the kind of job that can’t be done from home, therefore you can understand your wife’s company wanting to get people back to work and money back in to the business, your wife could ask what steps are being taken to reduce risk, what PPE will be worn etc? your wife could ask for a long term period of absence, it would usually be unpaid leave. the company again don’t have to grant it as they might struggle without her for such a long, unspecified period of time and could be forced to find someone to replace her. Many people are living with vulnerable people in their household and have continued to work throughout the crisis. You might have to look at which precautions they’ve been taking during this time.

jazzyja

If the opticians are providing correct ppe for their employees and customers I dont think there should be much of a problem? I do understand your worry but also this virus isn't going away anytime soon. Its going to be a very long time before we can officially say its gone, if ever. Your wife will have to return eventually. Aslong as appropriate ppe is provided and they're doffing and donning correctly and taught to do so. 

Digital_Dan

Thrugelmir said:

Rather than jumping to conclusions. Your wife should be speaking to her employer. To asacertain what measures are being put in place. Likewise investigate what measures she needs to take to protect you upon returning from work. 

If somebody doesn't want to work they don't have to, though there's no obligation to be paid. 

No conclusions jumped to. She is talking to her employer, but so far she has not received any detail of what protection will be put into place. Prior to lockdown, she was advised by her employers that staff would be provided with PPE, but none ever materialised, and the staff were working without protection. Hence her concern that any promised protection may not be put into place. Even if she wears PPE, she still feels that she is at higher risk than she is comfortable with, hence my question.

[Deleted User]

Digital_Dan said:

My questions are:

1: Can my wife's employers compel her to return to work?

They can not "compel" her to return to work, they can fire her if she refuses to work according to her contract.

Digital_Dan said:

2: Can my wife request remaining on the furlough scheme, even if her place of work is reopened?

Yes she can, but she has no right to be furloughed and it would be entirely at the discretion of her employer. It is also unlikely that they would be willing to do so even if they did agree as from August it will cost them ever increasing amounts to do so.

Digital_Dan said:

3: Is there any legal means that my wife can delay returning to work?

Yes and no, she can use holiday, quit her job, or request unpaid leave. 

Digital_Dan said:

4: If my wife requests a long term leave of absence, are her employers obliged to grant it?.

No they are not.

Digital_Dan said:

5: Is there any legislation or government guidance that she could use to argue her case with her employer?

Not really no, the government have asked employers to be flexible, but A it is a request, and B it does not include the employer paying the employee to not work.

Digital_Dan said:

Obviously, my wife will return to work at some point. Given the nature of her employment and my particular vulnerability, she would prefer not to return to work until either a vaccine or effective therapeutic treatment for Corona Virus is available or community transmission is at a much lower level than it is currently.

We do not even know if a vaccine is theoretically possible yet, it depends on the nature of sustained immunity post infection (eg if an infection does not cause long term immunity then neither will a vaccine). There is already relatively effective treatments for Covid-19, the majority of infections are no more than a mild cold, even amongst those with worse symptoms many do not require hospital admission and of those facing hospital admission the death rate is still low. Community transmission will not drop greatly until we have achieved heard immunity, either through a vaccine or by longer term exposure to the virus and Covid-19 may just end up being something we all live with for the rest of our lives.

Now on to what would make the difference, I suspect, due to the nature of your wife's work that PPE will become very important. With correct use of PPE your wife's risk of infection from conducting eye tests could be reduced from a theoretical <1% based on normal conditions to a <0.01% through the use of good hand hygiene, temperature tests of customers and the use of masks and face shields, something which I imagine all opticians will be doing as a matter of course. It would not be regarded as "Covid Secure" or reasonable to ask opticians to go back to work with previous working practices so I highly suspect that adequate PPE will be provided and used, meaning her risk of catching Covid-19 at work will likely be lower than her catching it in another location.

Temperature checking clients on arrival and excluding any with elevated temperatures, wearing gloves and/or washing hands regularly, wearing an FFP2/3 mask and a face shield or goggles would reduce risk to almost zero, these are the procedures being followed in dentist and the theoretical risk for them is far higher due to dental procedures aerosolising saliva and working directly in the patients mouth. If I were your wife I would not be talking to my employer about how I could avoid going back to work, but how I could go back in a safe "Covid secure" way.

Digital_Dan

calcotti said:

Digital_Dan said:..I suffer from several health problems and I am classified as 'vulnerable' and have been shielding as advised by the government.

You are not shielding unless you have received the 'shielding' letter informing you that you are extremely vulnerable and advising you to shield.

Digital_Dan said:
 My questions are:

1: Can my wife's employers compel her to return to work?

2: Can my wife request remaining on the furlough scheme, even if her place of work is reopened?

3: Is there any legal means that my wife can delay returning to work?

4: If my wife requests a long term leave of absence, are her employers obliged to grant it?.

5: Is there any legislation or government guidance that she could use to argue her case with her employer?

1. They cannot compel her to return to work but she has no right to be paid if she doesn't.
2. She can ask but employer has to obligation to do so.
3. Not to my knowledge
4. Not to my knowledge, you would have to expect also that any leave of absence granted will be unpaid.
5. Not that I am aware of. The employer does however have to have a strategy for dealing with the coronavirus risks in order to reduce the risk of infection to the extent that it is reasonably practical.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/working-safely-during-coronavirus-covid-19

I did receive a letter advising me to shield.

Thanks for your answers, very much appreciated.

[Deleted User]

Digital_Dan said:

Thrugelmir said:

Rather than jumping to conclusions. Your wife should be speaking to her employer. To asacertain what measures are being put in place. Likewise investigate what measures she needs to take to protect you upon returning from work. 

If somebody doesn't want to work they don't have to, though there's no obligation to be paid. 

She is talking to her employer, but so far she has not received any detail of what protection will be put into place. Prior to lockdown, she was advised by her employers that staff would be provided with PPE, but none ever materialised, and the staff were working without protection. Hence her concern that any promised protection may not be put into place. Even if she wears PPE, she still feels that she is at higher risk than she is comfortable with, hence my question.

Guidance for reopening has yet to be published by the General Optical Council, I suspect that they will not confirm anything until that has happened as it will give them a base to implement procedures. It would be much more complicated for an optician to develop their own guidelines, where the GOC can produce them with the advice of many experts. The GOC will likely recommend various levels of PPE for different procedures (eg one for examinations, another for general shop interaction) but this will probably be roughly in line with what dentists are required to do when it comes to examinations.

Digital_Dan

gary83 said:

I suspect it’s not the answer you want to hear, whilst your wife can ask to remain on the furlough scheme, her company is under no obligation to agree to it, bear in mind that furlough will begin to cost the employer progressively more after July.

an optician is not the kind of job that can’t be done from home, therefore you can understand your wife’s company wanting to get people back to work and money back in to the business, your wife could ask what steps are being taken to reduce risk, what PPE will be worn etc? your wife could ask for a long term period of absence, it would usually be unpaid leave. the company again don’t have to grant it as they might struggle without her for such a long, unspecified period of time and could be forced to find someone to replace her. Many people are living with vulnerable people in their household and have continued to work throughout the crisis. You might have to look at which precautions they’ve been taking during this time.

Thanks for your reply much appreciated. As I said in response to an earlier reply, she is talking to her employers and as yet has no details of what protection will be provided.
I am merely trying to work out what if any options may be available if she decides the risks are currently too great to return to work.

Digital_Dan

MadMattUK said:

Digital_Dan said:

My questions are:

1: Can my wife's employers compel her to return to work?

They can not "compel" her to return to work, they can fire her if she refuses to work according to her contract.

Digital_Dan said:

2: Can my wife request remaining on the furlough scheme, even if her place of work is reopened?

Yes she can, but she has no right to be furloughed and it would be entirely at the discretion of her employer. It is also unlikely that they would be willing to do so even if they did agree as from August it will cost them ever increasing amounts to do so.

Digital_Dan said:

3: Is there any legal means that my wife can delay returning to work?

Yes and no, she can use holiday, quit her job, or request unpaid leave. 

Digital_Dan said:

4: If my wife requests a long term leave of absence, are her employers obliged to grant it?.

No they are not.

Digital_Dan said:

5: Is there any legislation or government guidance that she could use to argue her case with her employer?

Not really no, the government have asked employers to be flexible, but A it is a request, and B it does not include the employer paying the employee to not work.

Digital_Dan said:

Obviously, my wife will return to work at some point. Given the nature of her employment and my particular vulnerability, she would prefer not to return to work until either a vaccine or effective therapeutic treatment for Corona Virus is available or community transmission is at a much lower level than it is currently.

We do not even know if a vaccine is theoretically possible yet, it depends on the nature of sustained immunity post infection (eg if an infection does not cause long term immunity then neither will a vaccine). There is already relatively effective treatments for Covid-19, the majority of infections are no more than a mild cold, even amongst those with worse symptoms many do not require hospital admission and of those facing hospital admission the death rate is still low. Community transmission will not drop greatly until we have achieved heard immunity, either through a vaccine or by longer term exposure to the virus and Covid-19 may just end up being something we all live with for the rest of our lives.

Now on to what would make the difference, I suspect, due to the nature of your wife's work that PPE will become very important. With correct use of PPE your wife's risk of infection from conducting eye tests could be reduced from a theoretical <1% based on normal conditions to a <0.01% through the use of good hand hygiene, temperature tests of customers and the use of masks and face shields, something which I imagine all opticians will be doing as a matter of course. It would not be regarded as "Covid Secure" or reasonable to ask opticians to go back to work with previous working practices so I highly suspect that adequate PPE will be provided and used, meaning her risk of catching Covid-19 at work will likely be lower than her catching it in another location.

Temperature checking clients on arrival and excluding any with elevated temperatures, wearing gloves and/or washing hands regularly, wearing an FFP2/3 mask and a face shield or goggles would reduce risk to almost zero, these are the procedures being followed in dentist and the theoretical risk for them is far higher due to dental procedures aerosolising saliva and working directly in the patients mouth. If I were your wife I would not be talking to my employer about how I could avoid going back to work, but how I could go back in a safe "Covid secure" way.

Thank you for your comprehensive answer, it is very much appreciated.

I'm not sure there will be any "Covid secure" way of her working, though of course, the precautions you describe would minimise but not eliminate the risk of infection. 

Thanks again.