About to exchange - TP1 is missing, my solicitor insists it's important, so cannot exchange

jumperabv3

I called HM Land Registry.
They said it's highly likely the TP1 was scanned separately back then in 1991 and that's why it's not showing with the main scan.
They said the solicitors should make enquiries to attach the separated scan to the main one and this should hopefully resolve the issue.
The lady I spoke with also said it's also possible the TP1 was never scanned and then she cannot provide any legal advice in terms of what to do, but she said there are many cases with properties of a missing document that is simply scanned separately - and that's why it's not there until an enquiry is made.
Is this for real?
Is this how the land registry is operating?!

GDB2222

jumperabv3 said:

GDB2222 said:

Essentially, as things stand, the property is unsaleable. Well, that’s an exaggeration as somebody will buy it at a suitable discount. It’s not mortgageable and that reduces the value drastically. It’s the seller’s problem at the moment. Don’t make it yours unless you’re getting a massive discount.

What would be a massive discount? 5% off the agreed price?
And let's say I buy it with a discount - is there anything I can do to "replace" that TP1?
Should I call HM Land Registry this morning and ask them what to do?

The seller seems to be genuine and she genuinely doesn't have this document but she shouldn't even had it had the HM Land Registry recorded this document - there are other flats and houses in this development so I'm not sure why for this specific one the TP1 wasn't uploaded/recorded in the HM Land Registry.

I can always withdraw and pull out but I spent time on this as well as legal fees and valuation already - so it would be a shame to throw it all, but on the same time until this point - I am not entirely sure how "bad" is this situation? If this is something that can be fixed even if it takes years then I'll go for it - if it's something that cannot be fixed then either pull out or ask for a massive discount? Is that what you're suggesting?

If the problem can be solved fairly easily, then it's not really a problem, just an inconvenience. It's really for the seller to sort out, but it's not important who does it, just as long as it's done before you buy.  However, the fact that the seller has NOT sorted it out implies that it may not be possible to do so.

If (as you suggested in your other post) it's just an issue at the Land Registry that's easily sorted, why hasn't the seller sorted it? 

Anyway, if the property is not mortgageable, the usual discount would be around 30-50%. That's judging from non-standard construction properties. 

jumperabv3

GDB2222 said:

If (as you suggested in your other post) it's just an issue at the Land Registry that's easily sorted, why hasn't the seller sorted it? 

That's what I'm asking myself.
I honestly feel like the seller herself is genuinely not aware of this at all, and it could be a simple matter.

I tried to get to the bottom of it but there is so much I can go into. I have no idea if the seller's solicitor is putting any effort to resolve it, or just being lazy (I do have to say the seller's solicitor did reply extremely fast to most enquiries until now - but I get the impression when it comes to dealing with harder things - he might take a different approach, that's my first impression - that it's just incompetence and nothing else - that's what I believe).

I'm thinking of making a threat of pulling out if the seller's solicitor won't put any effort into this - maybe that's the only way he would start doing something or otherwise they would lose me as a buyer as I'm not intending to wait forever.

steampowered

This is a really frustrating situation - I feel for you! I would do the following:

- Ask your solicitor for advice on whether it is possible to resolve this after completion based on the scanned copy of the TR1 you have.
- Tell the estate agent, and make it clear that you might have to pull out and that any other buyer would have exactly the same issue, and that you are concerned that the seller/their conveyancer are not sorting it out. See if they can do anything to chase the seller and their solicitors to get it resolved.

This is the kind of situation where if the seller has decided to use a cut-price conveyancing factory, they won't get much support from them, so the seller is going to have to realise that he/she will need to put a bit of effort in!

GDB2222

jumperabv3 said:

GDB2222 said:

If (as you suggested in your other post) it's just an issue at the Land Registry that's easily sorted, why hasn't the seller sorted it? 

That's what I'm asking myself.
I honestly feel like the seller herself is genuinely not aware of this at all, and it could be a simple matter.

I tried to get to the bottom of it but there is so much I can go into. I have no idea if the seller's solicitor is putting any effort to resolve it, or just being lazy (I do have to say the seller's solicitor did reply extremely fast to most enquiries until now - but I get the impression when it comes to dealing with harder things - he might take a different approach, that's my first impression - that it's just incompetence and nothing else - that's what I believe).

I'm thinking of making a threat of pulling out if the seller's solicitor won't put any effort into this - maybe that's the only way he would start doing something or otherwise they would lose me as a buyer as I'm not intending to wait forever.

I think you should pull out unless this is sorted out. There's no point dropping your offer by 30%, as the seller probably doesn't realise there's a problem. Obviously, you should give warning before pulling out.

Whilst you have costs sunk into this property, those costs are sunk, and you can't hang on for ever.

jumperabv3

steampowered said:

This is a really frustrating situation - I feel for you! I would do the following:

- Ask your solicitor for advice on whether it is possible to resolve this after completion based on the scanned copy of the TR1 you have.
- Tell the estate agent, and make it clear that you might have to pull out and that any other buyer would have exactly the same issue, and that you are concerned that the seller/their conveyancer are not sorting it out. See if they can do anything to chase the seller and their solicitors to get it resolved.

This is the kind of situation where if the seller has decided to use a cut-price conveyancing factory, they won't get much support from them, so the seller is going to have to realise that he/she will need to put a bit of effort in!

GDB2222 said:

I think you should pull out unless this is sorted out. There's no point dropping your offer by 30%, as the seller probably doesn't realise there's a problem. Obviously, you should give warning before pulling out.

Whilst you have costs sunk into this property, those costs are sunk, and you can't hang on for ever.

I think there is no resort but to do that, thank you both.
By the way,
The developer just replied and said they unfortunately don't have any copy of that TP1 document.

If the seller/owner doesn't have it, the developer doesn't have it, and no one else has it - then it does look like a dead end. The only chance is perhaps HM Land Registry has it scanned separately but I'm not sure if this is correct or not, and would ask my solicitor how long would it take to find this out.

Yes, it feels quite annoying but I have to move on, I guess I'll have to look elsewhere for a new investment which is really frustrating but it's better to do that now than to find out things later on.

jumperabv3

Good news!
Spoke to my solicitor over the phone - it is simpler than I thought - all I need to get basically is indemnity policy aka indemnity insurance.
This basically covers the home owner against any convenant claims (I asked my solicitor if anyone has claims surely he has the original document also? so she laughed a bit and said - yes, that would be one way of getting the original document) .... but basically with this policy mortgage buyers/lenders etc. - won't have any problem dealing with a house purchase.

I must say I had a different view when I thought the property would be unsellable to mortgage buyers - but if such policy resolves the issue then it's all good to go .... (now I wonder how come no one has brought up this idea in the forum until now?)