Rishi Sunak to give HMRC ‘draconian’ powers to reclaim hundreds of millions

chirper1

Coronavirus latest: Rishi Sunak to give HMRC ‘draconian’ powers to reclaim hundreds of millions in Covid-19 support payments

inews.co.uk/news/business/coronavirus-uk-latest-rishi-sunak-hmrc-draconian-powers-covid-19-support-claims-444690?ito=facebook_share_article-bottom

So all the support govt has given out will be reclaimed based on what HMRC believes? No Proof?

ToxicWomble

They were grants and loans to help people and companies out NOT gifts- how else would you suggest they get the money paid back ?

Thrugelmir

Not all claims will have been legitimate. 

chirper1

ToxicWomble said:

They were grants and loans to help people and companies out NOT gifts- how else would you suggest they get the money paid back ?

I understand people who furloughed staff but continued asking for work from your employees, that is a clear violation of the support payment rules but what about those claiming under SEISS who they paid based on the previous tax returns files?
What about those who were paid one off grants from Council where the eligibility criteria was

You’re eligible if your business:

is based in England

occupies property

was eligible for small business rate relief (including tapered relief) or rural rate relief on 11 March 2020

[Deleted User]

I know of two companies where the owners claimed for furlough whilst keeping staff working, one because he is stupid enough for having boasted about it on social media (before deleting the posts, not until after they had been screenshotted) and another where a friend works in their accounts department and can see what the owner has done. Should the government not reclaim that taxpayer money which was claimed fraudulently? 

chirper1

MadMattUK said:

I know of two companies where the owners claimed for furlough whilst keeping staff working, one because he is stupid enough for having boasted about it on social media (before deleting the posts, not until after they had been screenshotted) and another where a friend works in their accounts department and can see what the owner has done. Should the government not reclaim that taxpayer money which was claimed fraudulently? 

They definitely should.

calcotti

chirper1 said: What about those who were paid one off grants from Council where the eligibility criteria was

You’re eligible if your business:

is based in England

occupies property

was eligible for small business rate relief (including tapered relief) or rural rate relief on 11 March 2020

What about them - not clear what point you are trying to make.

jfinnie

The original article seems perhaps to be confusing things as it isn't very specific on the differences between loans and grants, and as others have pointed out which grants are we talking about (as the rates related one wasn't predicated in any way on actually needing it), etc.  
In general though I think it is good to get a warning shot across the bows of all the small time crooks who think this is a great chance to line their pockets, almost like looting during a riot...

sharpe106

When they announced the scheme they always said they expected fraudulent claims so hardly surprising they are going to investigate claims. The problem HMRC are going to have is that what government ministers have said at briefings and what the policy documents say have not always been the same.

mobilejo

chirper1 said:
So all the support govt has given out will be reclaimed based on what HMRC believes? No Proof?

Media will always sensationalise these things. Time will tell what sort of 'abuse' they end up going after, what the burden of proof will be, and how many businesses actually get targeted.

If HMRC allege abuse/misuse/fraud, there will always be due process where the parties can argue it out. Just like any other situation where HMRC allege fraud. There is already a system for these sorts of cases to be tried.

Thrugelmir

mobilejo said:

chirper1 said:
So all the support govt has given out will be reclaimed based on what HMRC believes? No Proof?

If HMRC allege abuse/misuse/fraud, there will always be due process where the parties can argue it out. 

HMRC are generally extremely proficient at payroll audits. Opening gambit is a series of questions to which the answers are either yes or no. There's no grey. Penalties that can be imposed are severe enough as they are. As many an organisation has found out in the past. Fraud is nothing new.