Could the garage be liable?

Burnsie1983

Hi all.

So I posted about this a few months ago but can't find the original. 

Around two and a half years ago I bought a second-hand car off a close friend. Since then I have put approximately 30000 miles on the clock (just making this point as I don't put any blame on the friend).

In early February I got a warning light on my dash... A bad one. The next day as I need in my car for work on the Monday, I took my car to Kwik-Fit. They diagnosed the problem as broken auxiliary belt. They fixed the belt.

The next morning, the car moved about 5 m before stopping. I had to get the AA to come and tow the car (at additional cost). I got them to take it back to Kwik-Fit of the AA man said the aux belt had broken again, and I wanted it replacing for free.

Kwik-Fit spent a few weeks investigating why the auxiliary belt had re broken. in the meantime they paid for a hire car for me.

I also kept talking to me about the timing belt and how it was over due for replacement (it should have been replaced at 100000 miles... Which was ironically my next service around about March!).

Kwik-Fit could not figure out why the auxiliary belt broke a second time and why the car was now not working.

Kwik-Fit sent my car to an engine specialists around the corner and paid for a report (that I have still not seen).

Then lockdown happened.

I now know that the cylinder head in my car needs replacing. The engine specialist suggest that the timing belt could have resulted in the damage to the cylinder head.

On my model of car there are a variety of reports on how the timing belt could be be damned aged by the auxiliary belt breaking and us damaging the engine. 

Late March time I did lodge a complaint with Kwik-Fit about the time I'm it was taking and the lack of response from them. They replied that the report from the engine specialist show no fault from Kwik fit (oh, and that they would like their hire car back now).

the bill to completely refit the cylinder head is approximately £3,000. This is on top of the money that I paid Kwik-Fit to fix the initial auxiliary belt, put a new battery in, towing the car, and an initial hire car that I paid for.

of course, the timing belt could have damaged the engine as it was overdue... but it would be very caring for dental for that to happen the very next day after Kwik-Fit initially fixed my car. 

in order for them to have any form of liability I guess I somehow need to prove that their fix of the exhilarate belt lead to the damage of the timing belt which led to the damage of the engine?... And I'm guessing this is pretty much impossible to do.

Any advice welcome 

DUTR

Burnsie1983 said:

Hi all.

So I posted about this a few months ago but can't find the original. 

Around two and a half years ago I bought a second-hand car off a close friend. Since then I have put approximately 30000 miles on the clock (just making this point as I don't put any blame on the friend).

In early February I got a warning light on my dash... A bad one. The next day as I need in my car for work on the Monday, I took my car to Kwik-Fit. They diagnosed the problem as broken auxiliary belt. They fixed the belt.

The next morning, the car moved about 5 m before stopping. I had to get the AA to come and tow the car (at additional cost). I got them to take it back to Kwik-Fit of the AA man said the aux belt had broken again, and I wanted it replacing for free.

Kwik-Fit spent a few weeks investigating why the auxiliary belt had re broken. in the meantime they paid for a hire car for me.

I also kept talking to me about the timing belt and how it was over due for replacement (it should have been replaced at 100000 miles... Which was ironically my next service around about March!).

Kwik-Fit could not figure out why the auxiliary belt broke a second time and why the car was now not working.

Kwik-Fit sent my car to an engine specialists around the corner and paid for a report (that I have still not seen).

Then lockdown happened.

I now know that the cylinder head in my car needs replacing. The engine specialist suggest that the timing belt could have resulted in the damage to the cylinder head.

On my model of car there are a variety of reports on how the timing belt could be be damned aged by the auxiliary belt breaking and us damaging the engine. 

Late March time I did lodge a complaint with Kwik-Fit about the time I'm it was taking and the lack of response from them. They replied that the report from the engine specialist show no fault from Kwik fit (oh, and that they would like their hire car back now).

the bill to completely refit the cylinder head is approximately £3,000. This is on top of the money that I paid Kwik-Fit to fix the initial auxiliary belt, put a new battery in, towing the car, and an initial hire car that I paid for.

of course, the timing belt could have damaged the engine as it was overdue... but it would be very caring for dental for that to happen the very next day after Kwik-Fit initially fixed my car. 

in order for them to have any form of liability I guess I somehow need to prove that their fix of the exhilarate belt lead to the damage of the timing belt which led to the damage of the engine?... And I'm guessing this is pretty much impossible to do.

Any advice welcome 

I do recall the original story, and the jury concluded to avoid KF where possible, however I'm not sure what you may be expecting? To say the garage had misfitted the belt suits your circumstance, that said I had VW do similar luckily there was no damage.
 

Ectophile

I'm not sure what Kwik Fit are supposed to have done wrong here.  It sounds like the engine already had a hidden fault at the time you first took it to them, and that was only discovered when they sent it to the specialist to look at.

But you seem to be taking the view that because they touched it last, then they should foot the entire bill for rebuilding the engine.

shaun_from_Africa

Burnsie1983 said:

In early February I got a warning light on my dash... A bad one. The next day as I need in my car for work on the Monday, I took my car to Kwik-Fit. 

How did you get the car to Kwik-Fit?

Burnsie1983

Ectophile said:

I'm not sure what Kwik Fit are supposed to have done wrong here.  It sounds like the engine already had a hidden fault at the time you first took it to them, and that was only discovered when they sent it to the specialist to look at.

But you seem to be taking the view that because they touched it last, then they should foot the entire bill for rebuilding the engine.

Maybe. I drove the car to Kwik-Fit for the first fix.... And then it only made it about a mile after that!

Burnsie1983

shaun_from_Africa said:

Burnsie1983 said:

In early February I got a warning light on my dash... A bad one. The next day as I need in my car for work on the Monday, I took my car to Kwik-Fit. 

How did you get the car to Kwik-Fit?

The first time, I drove it in (although slowly). Second time, on the back of a truck. 

The_Rainmaker

Time to buy a new car in all likelihood.

I can't see where you could point the finger at Kwik Fit being at fault.

HHarry

What if the timing belt was damaged when the first aux belt snapped?  That would have nothing to do with Kwikfit.

Burnsie1983

HHarry said:

What if the timing belt was damaged when the first aux belt snapped?  That would have nothing to do with Kwikfit.

Indeed, you could be correct. I suppose Id just like to know what caused the problem

shaun_from_Africa

Burnsie1983 said:

shaun_from_Africa said: 

How did you get the car to Kwik-Fit?

The first time, I drove it in (although slowly). Second time, on the back of a truck. 

Which could well have been the final nail in the coffin for the engine especially as you had a "bad" engine light showing.
Was it an amber which is normally "get it fixed as soon as possible" or a red "stop immediately and don't start the engine until fixed"?

AdrianC

If the aux belt went, the most likely light to come on is the charge warning light, because the alternator's driven off that belt.

So the belt snapped... They don't normally snap, unless they're WAY overdue for changing, and any competent service would pick it up long before that.

So did something cause it to go? Given that the replacement went shortly afterwards, probably.

Should KF have noticed whatever was causing it to fail? Perhaps not. They started it, checked it was seated properly, drove it off the ramp and outside to the collection area. You started it, drove it home, parked up... All no problem. You fired it up the following morning, did whatever you normally do between starting and moving off - and it went ping shortly after.
Except this time, bits of it got into the cambelt, and took that out, too. Exeunt engine. You were lucky that didn't happen the first time.

That belt went round thousands of times before it went ping the second time. It can't have been a simple broken bracket/collapsed bearing misalignment issue. So how long should KF have sat there with it running? Would that have shown it up, even? Perhaps the alternator or power steering pump or aircon compressor is putting far too much load on in certain situations, and that's what caused it to go ping?

One thing's for sure, KF aren't going to accept liability, so you'd have to take them to court. And you're going to need an expert report to show why it was their fault, and how they should have noticed whatever it was.