Anyone know about car wheel alignment?

bikingbarney

Bought a new car at the weekend and on the way home noticed the tracking was off and one of the wheels needed balancing.

Rather than taking it to the car supermarket I bought it from for them to sort it I took it to my local place that Ive always used and have always been spot on. Car supermarktet footed the bill.

unfortunately there has been a change in personnel at my local place and he has input the wrong suspension type twice onto the hunter machine as he said that’s what my car had fitted.

Car is handling awfully and not as it should (Comparing to our other car which is same make and model as the new one)

Ive managed to find the correct specs for my suspension and the rear toe is out : set at o degrees and 5 minutes whereas is should be 0 degrees and 8 minutes.

Rear camber is set at -1.09 one side and -1.15 the other. It should be -1.45 both sides.

Doesnt sound a great deal but if you were to put it back on a hunter alignment with the correct car details then both the rear toe and camber would be red.

Ive lost faith in the local garage as I overheard the lad that did it taking the !!!!!! out of me with his mates for taking it back.

Car is very unsettled, especially at motorway speeds (my commute is pretty much all motorway) its oversteering loads and feels like it wants to swap ends all the time.

Tyres are decent and at correct pressures, I’ve even swapped the wheels from our other car onto it to make sure it wasn’t that and it was exactly the same.

AdrianC

So take it to somewhere else.

MinuteNoodles

Take it back, ask to speak to the manager, say you want it doing but point to the person who took the mick out of you and say in a very firm voice you do not want that person anywhere near your vehicle with tools. And then stand there and watch them do it and if you're not happy then tell them. It's your money and it's not just a few quid to get it done.

Goudy

First off, what car is it and does it have independent rear suspension?
If is has, are all the bushes and joints in the setup free of play/wear?
Worn bushes or joints will play havoc with the alignment and can cause the back end to steer and you'll never adjust it out.

Solid, trailing arm systems are usually fixed, with little or no adjustment and if they show up as being too far out of tolerance, it's usually because it's had a whack to a wheel or some idiot has jacked up the car up on the axle, though there is usually a pivot/bush each end that needs checking.

Before you go on with repeated alignments, you need to have the suspension and joints all around the car checked properly.
It can be hard to pin point wear/play with the car jacked up and the wheels hanging, as the weight of the wheels and tyres pull any slack out of the joints, but someone in the know should be able to check it properly by jemmying the joints with a pry bar.

A good check of the wheel bearings isn't a bad idea as well and if any tyres look dodgy, change them.

(I suspect as you mention a wheel balance problem, you have a problem with a bush/joint or wheel bearing, which is causing both the alignment problem and the wheel shimmy you're feeling)

Once you know all the suspension is good and tight, you need the rack centered or checked it's centered.
This means there's equal amounts of steering rack hanging out of each side (don't worry where the steering wheel is pointing yet).
If the racks or steering wheel has been off or some moron has been hamfisted with the tracking, you can end up with more rack at one end than the other, then the same moron refits the steering wheel straight.
So a check the rack is centered properly and then a check/ refit the steering wheel in the straight ahead in needed.

Once all that's done, then you can get on with a wheel alignment.

bikingbarney

Goudy said:

First off, what car is it and does it have independent rear suspension?
If is has, are all the bushes and joints in the setup free of play/wear?
Worn bushes or joints will play havoc with the alignment and can cause the back end to steer and you'll never adjust it out.

Solid, trailing arm systems are usually fixed, with little or no adjustment and if they show up as being too far out of tolerance, it's usually because it's had a whack to a wheel or some idiot has jacked up the car up on the axle, though there is usually a pivot/bush each end that needs checking.

Before you go on with repeated alignments, you need to have the suspension and joints all around the car checked properly.
It can be hard to pin point wear/play with the car jacked up and the wheels hanging, as the weight of the wheels and tyres pull any slack out of the joints, but someone in the know should be able to check it properly by jemmying the joints with a pry bar.

A good check of the wheel bearings isn't a bad idea as well and if any tyres look dodgy, change them.

(I suspect as you mention a wheel balance problem, you have a problem with a bush/joint or wheel bearing, which is causing both the alignment problem and the wheel shimmy you're feeling)

Once you know all the suspension is good and tight, you need the rack centered or checked it's centered.
This means there's equal amounts of steering rack hanging out of each side (don't worry where the steering wheel is pointing yet).
If the racks or steering wheel has been off or some moron has been hamfisted with the tracking, you can end up with more rack at one end than the other, then the same moron refits the steering wheel straight.
So a check the rack is centered properly and then a check/ refit the steering wheel in the straight ahead in needed.

Once all that's done, then you can get on with a wheel alignment.

Hi thanks for the information.

The car is a 2018 68 plate Skoda Octavia vrs with independent multi link rear suspension.

The car has covered 17.5k miles and all suspension joints feel nice and tight, no knocks, bangs or signs of accident damage.

Tyres are brand new on the rear Pirelli P zero nero gt size 225/40/18.

At lowish speed it feels fine its only at speeds above say 50 mph and especially on the motorway if feels very fidgety and just a small input on the steering wheel makes the rear end feel like it is sliding, the same effect as having really low pressure in tyres.

All tyres are set to correct tyre pressures according to skoda.

Ive evn swapped the wheels from my other Octavia vrs over on to it and it made no difference.

doris540

Right with a Hunter kit you have to eliminate any wheel run out first , basically a buckled wheel. You say there is 3 mins difference in the rear from what you say it should be this is literally next to nothing. one degree obviously 360 degrees in a circle to put in perspective. Then in each degree there are 60 mins . So basically as you can see this is next to nothing. Secondly on VWs and Skodas and such with multilink rear suspension there is some adjustment althou very little on where the trailing arms actually bolt to the floorpan of the car as there is also some little movement on the front subframe as well. As a very rough guide insert your fingers between the rear tyre and the sill at the same height and the same hand each side any difference could be a starting point if one wheel althou totally pointing in right direction toe spot on and camber spot on this will have a adverse effect on handling. Check the ride height as well against another exactly same car althou obviously one with fumes in the tank and the other full to the gunnels the ride height will be different.  If the car has had a new rack at some point then you have to assemble the new one they do not come with the track control arms or the  track rod ends.Seen one or two where the arm has started to become unscrewed from the main body of the rack. As previously stated need to check for any play either at 12 and 6 oclock and 3 and 9 oclock on every wheel with handbrake off when doing the back.  If the car was a company car before you had it it could of been loaded to the head lining going up and down the motorway etc .which is why i said check the ride height . With these steering racks you can only put the steering column on the bottom of it in one place anyway and believe it or not but try it from a straight ahead postion  most cars when you turn the wheel each way to full lock do not always have equal travel each way its very minimal but more often than not its not equal. Also check that the track control arms thats the arms that come out the steering rack one isnt bent and theyve adjusted the tracking to conpensate this will lead to big difference in how far you can turn the steering wheel each way as well. My money would be on the rear caster is slightly different thats the wheel to far forward or to far back in the wheel arch so to speak as i said do the finger test for a rough guide but dont do it the bumper side only the sill side also check the tyre pressures are the same and the ride height basically a tape measure from the very centre of the wheel to the lip of the wheel arch at 12 oclock

bikingbarney

Hi thanks for the information. 
This is what they have set it to currently. It is well within limits for that type of suspension. 
[url=https://postimg.cc/PNm94vzb][img]https://i.postimg.cc/L47SmzJW/IMG-20200610-183900.jpg[/img][/url]

You can see it's set spot on if that was the correct suspension configuration. 

Now, this is what it should be set too. If you look at the figures for the rear you can see that the camber and toe would be in the red or nearly in the red for the correct information. 

[url=https://postimg.cc/18Nj8gtN][img]https://i.postimg.cc/YCXKyYB8/received-2628984004038236.jpg[/img][/url]

The car basically feels like it has underinflated rear tyres and is oversteering quite badly. 

Hope this makes sense. 

AdrianC

bikingbarney said:

Hi thanks for the information. 
This is what they have set it to currently. It is well within limits for that type of suspension. 
[url=https://postimg.cc/PNm94vzb][img]https://i.postimg.cc/L47SmzJW/IMG-20200610-183900.jpg[/img][/url]

You can see it's set spot on if that was the correct suspension configuration. 

Now, this is what it should be set too. If you look at the figures for the rear you can see that the camber and toe would be in the red or nearly in the red for the correct information. 

[url=https://postimg.cc/18Nj8gtN][img]https://i.postimg.cc/YCXKyYB8/received-2628984004038236.jpg[/img][/url]

The car basically feels like it has underinflated rear tyres and is oversteering quite badly. 

Hope this makes sense. 

Your links don't work.

bikingbarney

Hi thanks for the information. 
This is what they have set it to currently. It is well within limits for that type of suspension. 

You can see it's set spot on if that was the correct suspension configuration. 

bikingbarney

Now, this is what it should be set too. If you look at the figures for the rear you can see that the camber and toe would be in the red or nearly in the red for the correct information. 

AdrianC

Toe - LH actual 0.05, RH 0.05. Spec 0.03 to 0.13
Camber - LH Actual -1.09, RH -1.17 Spec -2.15 to -1.15. Difference 0.08, max difference 0.30.

So toe both sides and RH camber are all in spec, and LH camber is marginally outside (by 6 minutes, 1/10th of one degree).

I VERY much doubt this is your issue. Let's be honest - it's not an F1 car. It's a tubby Tesco Value Golf with some stick-on go-faster bits.