Problems with Howdens

DeborahOsborne

The Howden's motto of supplying to The Trade is only part of the 'fitting part'.  To ensure it's fitted correctly. 
Anyone can open a Trade Account, I used to have one as I needed a lot of timber and doors for a project that I was installing.  I don't have Carpentry or Joinery accreditations'. 
I was a farmer and I don't pay for craftsman when it's a version of Ikea I'm creating.  I've hung steel cattle, sheep, pigs handling stuff.  Did I get a professional in to do the concrete base for the new stock shed, yep.  I don't have the equipment to get the bubbles, ridges in, on that massive metered sq. or the compression bolts that are needed for the steel beams.  If that concrete doesn't last as it should, I'd be chasing the concrete company.  If the bolts go I'll chase the groundwork company.  Yes there are Laws regarding somebody acting as an Agent for a company.  There is plenty of case law on this.  Then you have the 'Fit for Purpose' Legislation; Sale of Goods Act, haven't got up to date with the current interpretations, so reading up there.  My fitters are craftsmen, accredited, got examples of their work; absolutely stunning.  Fitting isn't the problem, the product is.  As I said, I've written what they supplied off in my head; I'm replacing it as soon as I find another product which supplies what I want.  Fortunate position to be in. 
As for the money I spent, I could have had a joiner make and fit exactly what I wanted.  I'd just have to wait as they are a very busy bunch.  Carcasses for kitchen cabinets are made all over the place and are very much a muchness, if that makes sense.  It's what you wrap them in that makes the difference. Yes you need to know about the various quality boards they use, in the carcass, but that's about the only difference. 
The way Howden's market themselves, is that the fitter is the last part of the process and then only to ensure their product is fitted correctly.  That's why I say speaking to the right Solicitor will be interesting.  Yes I need to put the effort in to find a Solicitor specialising in Consumer Law.  As Howden's have angered me and my style isn't to shout or rant; I just make my way up the 'totem pole' to the person who has both the authority and capacity to make a final decision.  I won't get angry with those who don't have those abilities, it isn't their fault.  It's at Director Level, they make the policies, so it's them who will receive my angst. As the saying goes, there is more than one way to skin a cat.  I also have the one thing they really don't want, time.  I worked for a very respected worldwide company; they had a board level decision to make complaining as difficult as possible; the average person just gives up.  They bank on it, it's part of their margins etc.  Horrible but true.    When a car has a recall because of a defective part; it isn't the dealership that foots the bill; the actual car company does.  The dealership isn't hit on the bottom line, allowance is made.  I have a carcass that is right angles on three sides and 1-1.5 mm out on the other.  Just wow, how do you do that without obvious gapping?   How many carcasses from that production line are wrong?  I'll probably find out that another company, probably part of the same Group, will actually do that part of manufacturing.  If my kitchen had been anything but linear, then my craftsmen probably could have hidden it.     

bris

Yes anyone can open a trade account but what you don't seem to understand that by opening a trade account you are setting up a as a trader not a consumer. Howdens do not sell to the public, you want to tell them you are a trader to get an account then that's on you but it doesn't mean you have consumer rights.

Howdens are strictly trade only to avoid consumers, it's always been their business to deal with traders only.

I suppose by now you have been told this but not what you want to hear right?

ItsComingRome

DeborahOsborne said:

The Howden's motto of supplying to The Trade is only part of the 'fitting part'.  To ensure it's fitted correctly. 
Anyone can open a Trade Account, I used to have one as I needed a lot of timber and doors for a project that I was installing.  I don't have Carpentry or Joinery accreditations'. 
I was a farmer and I don't pay for craftsman when it's a version of Ikea I'm creating.  I've hung steel cattle, sheep, pigs handling stuff.  Did I get a professional in to do the concrete base for the new stock shed, yep.  I don't have the equipment to get the bubbles, ridges in, on that massive metered sq. or the compression bolts that are needed for the steel beams.  If that concrete doesn't last as it should, I'd be chasing the concrete company.  If the bolts go I'll chase the groundwork company.  Yes there are Laws regarding somebody acting as an Agent for a company.  There is plenty of case law on this.  Then you have the 'Fit for Purpose' Legislation; Sale of Goods Act, haven't got up to date with the current interpretations, so reading up there.  My fitters are craftsmen, accredited, got examples of their work; absolutely stunning.  Fitting isn't the problem, the product is.  As I said, I've written what they supplied off in my head; I'm replacing it as soon as I find another product which supplies what I want.  Fortunate position to be in. 
As for the money I spent, I could have had a joiner make and fit exactly what I wanted.  I'd just have to wait as they are a very busy bunch.  Carcasses for kitchen cabinets are made all over the place and are very much a muchness, if that makes sense.  It's what you wrap them in that makes the difference. Yes you need to know about the various quality boards they use, in the carcass, but that's about the only difference. 
The way Howden's market themselves, is that the fitter is the last part of the process and then only to ensure their product is fitted correctly.  That's why I say speaking to the right Solicitor will be interesting.  Yes I need to put the effort in to find a Solicitor specialising in Consumer Law.  As Howden's have angered me and my style isn't to shout or rant; I just make my way up the 'totem pole' to the person who has both the authority and capacity to make a final decision.  I won't get angry with those who don't have those abilities, it isn't their fault.  It's at Director Level, they make the policies, so it's them who will receive my angst. As the saying goes, there is more than one way to skin a cat.  I also have the one thing they really don't want, time.  I worked for a very respected worldwide company; they had a board level decision to make complaining as difficult as possible; the average person just gives up.  They bank on it, it's part of their margins etc.  Horrible but true.    When a car has a recall because of a defective part; it isn't the dealership that foots the bill; the actual car company does.  The dealership isn't hit on the bottom line, allowance is made.  I have a carcass that is right angles on three sides and 1-1.5 mm out on the other.  Just wow, how do you do that without obvious gapping?   How many carcasses from that production line are wrong?  I'll probably find out that another company, probably part of the same Group, will actually do that part of manufacturing.  If my kitchen had been anything but linear, then my craftsmen probably could have hidden it.     

What sort of project?  If this "project" was related to your business you don't have any consumer rights.

sheramber

The OP  stated he bought through the builder's account  which is why Howden's state the builder is the customer, not the op.

He didn't open his own account or buy direct from Howden. Hos complaint is with the builder.

Monsternextdoor

The op needs to go thru the builder who installed the kitchen. 

It's the builder who has a 5 year guarantee for defects arising from the kitchen, Altho they have gone over the builder and have gone direct to the company cutting out the fitter of the kitchen who now could potentially wash his hands of them as the doors are not the ones that he installed. 

I can't see the builder getting a sad on tho more than likely he will get more joy from howdens as they build up a rapport with the sales teams and the lads in there, I've known builders take back doors etc over the 5 year defects and still get a replacement for the item.

ItsComingRome

Monsternextdoor said:

The op needs to go thru the builder who installed the kitchen. 

It's the builder who has a 5 year guarantee for defects arising from the kitchen, Altho they have gone over the builder and have gone direct to the company cutting out the fitter of the kitchen who now could potentially wash his hands of them as the doors are not the ones that he installed. 

I can't see the builder getting a sad on tho more than likely he will get more joy from howdens as they build up a rapport with the sales teams and the lads in there, I've known builders take back doors etc over the 5 year defects and still get a replacement for the item.

OP has long gone.  Someone else has dragged up the thread to post their own problem, and done a fantastic job of highlighting why you shouldn't hijack other peoples threads.

Manxman_in_exile

ItsComingRome said:

Monsternextdoor said:

The op needs to go thru the builder who installed the kitchen. 

It's the builder who has a 5 year guarantee for defects arising from the kitchen, Altho they have gone over the builder and have gone direct to the company cutting out the fitter of the kitchen who now could potentially wash his hands of them as the doors are not the ones that he installed. 

I can't see the builder getting a sad on tho more than likely he will get more joy from howdens as they build up a rapport with the sales teams and the lads in there, I've known builders take back doors etc over the 5 year defects and still get a replacement for the item.

OP has long gone.  Someone else has dragged up the thread to post their own problem, and done a fantastic job of highlighting why you shouldn't hijack other peoples threads.

Quite.  I don't think everybody has realised that DeborahOsborne is - I presume - a different person from the OP...

DeborahOsborne

Yes I am and I am truly sorry I have done that.  It was not my intention.   You're right, if your contract was with your builder, then you should go through them.  I will write my own post regarding Howden's.  I am trying to help anybody stuck in this position, where the product of Howden's doesn't meet specifications. 

gr1nch

Our kitchen was also supplied by Howdens and we have had no end of stressful problems over the past year, involving substandard worktops and overcharging. I'm going to create a separate post about our issues with Howdens, as knowing some of the pitfalls with their system and lack of care would have saved us thousands of pounds, time and distress.

Manxman_in_exile

And if you've read this thread you'll realise there's little point adding to it (nobody has posted since August last year and even that exchange had only reopened a long dead zombie thread).

The point of me letting you know on your other thread that other threads existed was so you could read them and see the experience of others.  All this thread is doing is confirming what you've already been told on your other thread - that Howden's only deal with trade customers.  Which sometimes makes it difficult if you want to assert consumer rights.

If you think Howden's are messing you about on prices, deliv.ery dates, quality issues etc, then you will need to negotiate a resolution with them based on the terms of your contract.  Unless you made it clear to them you weren't "trade", you probably don't have consumer rights - because you have to be a business to be a customer of theirs