buying a property outright for my mum to live in

filthyrichiwish

Hi all this is my first post on here! 
My main question is I am buying a property outright for my mum to live in. Just for reference it is in Scotland. 
I have looked into doing a private tenancy agreement but also Liferent as an option to go down as its not technically a rental property. My concern though is I want to exclude the possibility of current / future partners claiming residence should the worst happen to my mum. My only aim is to give my mum somewhere to live out her days worry free, I don't want to end up with a situation where I cant remove an unwanted partner (sounds harsh but just want to cover myself) 
So can i make my own tenancy agreement that says she can live her days out there but any partner or even other family member has no rights to stay beyond this unless agreed by me? 
The other thing was I have agreed a very minimal charge of rent to my mum but feel if there is someone else living with her they should contribute to the rent too, so thought i could put a clause saying mum has a discounted single occupancy rate and if subletting the discount would be removed?  Would this be fair and allowed? 
Have more questions but will start with these to see if I can clarify a way forward. Thanks for any advice! 

[Deleted User]

filthyrichiwish said:

Hi all this is my first post on here! 
My main question is I am buying a property outright for my mum to live in. Just for reference it is in Scotland. 
I have looked into doing a private tenancy agreement but also Liferent as an option to go down as its not technically a rental property. My concern though is I want to exclude the possibility of current / future partners claiming residence should the worst happen to my mum. My only aim is to give my mum somewhere to live out her days worry free, I don't want to end up with a situation where I cant remove an unwanted partner (sounds harsh but just want to cover myself) 
So can i make my own tenancy agreement that says she can live her days out there but any partner or even other family member has no rights to stay beyond this unless agreed by me? 
The other thing was I have agreed a very minimal charge of rent to my mum but feel if there is someone else living with her they should contribute to the rent too, so thought i could put a clause saying mum has a discounted single occupancy rate and if subletting the discount would be removed?  Would this be fair and allowed? 
Have more questions but will start with these to see if I can clarify a way forward. Thanks for any advice! 

You’re making this more complicated than it needs to be. Your mum will be living in the property and paying you rent. It will be a PRT. Someone else moving in and living with your mum won’t make them a tenant. 

filthyrichiwish

I'm not surprised that i would make things more complicated then they have to be lol! Have a habit of doing that! 
So I just need to do my own private tenancy agreement with her that says she can have others living there but they have no rights to remain? 

zagubov

filthyrichiwish said:

....
The other thing was I have agreed a very minimal charge of rent to my mum but feel if there is someone else living with her they should contribute to the rent too, so thought i could put a clause saying mum has a discounted single occupancy rate and if subletting the discount would be removed?  Would this be fair and allowed? 
Have more questions but will start with these to see if I can clarify a way forward. Thanks for any advice! 

I'm not sure of the legal situation in Scotland, but I'd imagine, if she pays any rent, even a small amount, her occupation of the house becomes a formal tenancy with regulations to follow, responsibilities, deposit protection needed, and registration with the tax and local authorities and so on. So be prepared to deal with all of that.

If anyone else stays there I think she and you would need to have no rent from that person, or they would have a tenancy (even a lodger has a kind of tenancy in Scotland) although I suppose they can contribute to bills.

This could make it very difficult to move someone out. From posts on threads here it seems that badly-written lodger agreements in Scotland could mean that you cannot remove a lodger for months on end. Plus it the lodger's rent is above a certain amount, she, like you would also need to file a tax return 

greatcrested

Lover_of_Lycra said:

filthyrichiwish said:

Hi all this is my first post on here! 
My main question is I am buying a property outright for my mum to live in. Just for reference it is in Scotland. 
I have looked into doing a private tenancy agreement but also Liferent as an option to go down as its not technically a rental property. My concern though is I want to exclude the possibility of current / future partners claiming residence should the worst happen to my mum. My only aim is to give my mum somewhere to live out her days worry free, I don't want to end up with a situation where I cant remove an unwanted partner (sounds harsh but just want to cover myself) 
So can i make my own tenancy agreement that says she can live her days out there but any partner or even other family member has no rights to stay beyond this unless agreed by me? 
The other thing was I have agreed a very minimal charge of rent to my mum but feel if there is someone else living with her they should contribute to the rent too, so thought i could put a clause saying mum has a discounted single occupancy rate and if subletting the discount would be removed?  Would this be fair and allowed? 
Have more questions but will start with these to see if I can clarify a way forward. Thanks for any advice! 

You’re making this more complicated than it needs to be. Your mum will be living in the property and paying you rent. It will be a PRT. Someone else moving in and living with your mum won’t make them a tenant. 

Last time I commented on a Scottish matter I got it wrong and was firmly, and quite rightly, put in my place!

However - OP, when LoverofLycra says it's a PRT, that means it's a formal tenancy subject to Scottish law which requires, amongst oher things, the landlord to be registered. There's more here:

https://scotland.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/advice_topics/renting_rights/renting_from_a_private_landlord/the_private_residential_tenancy

[Deleted User]

I wouldnt charge anything or create any tenancy. Therefore your mum will acquire no rights under a tenancy and no rights a partner could claim a share of. She is just living in your house out of the goodness of your heart for a family member 

AnotherJoe

What Densol said. Also keeps the tax side of things easier. 

[Deleted User]

zagubov said:

filthyrichiwish said:

....
The other thing was I have agreed a very minimal charge of rent to my mum but feel if there is someone else living with her they should contribute to the rent too, so thought i could put a clause saying mum has a discounted single occupancy rate and if subletting the discount would be removed?  Would this be fair and allowed? 
Have more questions but will start with these to see if I can clarify a way forward. Thanks for any advice! 

I'm not sure of the legal situation in Scotland, but I'd imagine, if she pays any rent, even a small amount, her occupation of the house becomes a formal tenancy with regulations to follow, responsibilities, deposit protection needed, and registration with the tax and local authorities and so on. So be prepared to deal with all of that.

If anyone else stays there I think she and you would need to have no rent from that person, or they would have a tenancy (even a lodger has a kind of tenancy in Scotland) although I suppose they can contribute to bills.

This could make it very difficult to move someone out. From posts on threads here it seems that badly-written lodger agreements in Scotland could mean that you cannot remove a lodger for months on end. Plus it the lodger's rent is above a certain amount, she, like you would also need to file a tax return 

You were right in the first sentence, you don’t know the legal situation in Scotland. The mother having someone live with her be it a bidey-in or a lodger aka a common law tenant will not make it difficult to remove that person and I don’t know where you are getting that it can take months on end for a lodger to be removed because that is simply not the case at all. 

[Deleted User]

greatcrested said:

Lover_of_Lycra said:

filthyrichiwish said:

Hi all this is my first post on here! 
My main question is I am buying a property outright for my mum to live in. Just for reference it is in Scotland. 
I have looked into doing a private tenancy agreement but also Liferent as an option to go down as its not technically a rental property. My concern though is I want to exclude the possibility of current / future partners claiming residence should the worst happen to my mum. My only aim is to give my mum somewhere to live out her days worry free, I don't want to end up with a situation where I cant remove an unwanted partner (sounds harsh but just want to cover myself) 
So can i make my own tenancy agreement that says she can live her days out there but any partner or even other family member has no rights to stay beyond this unless agreed by me? 
The other thing was I have agreed a very minimal charge of rent to my mum but feel if there is someone else living with her they should contribute to the rent too, so thought i could put a clause saying mum has a discounted single occupancy rate and if subletting the discount would be removed?  Would this be fair and allowed? 
Have more questions but will start with these to see if I can clarify a way forward. Thanks for any advice! 

You’re making this more complicated than it needs to be. Your mum will be living in the property and paying you rent. It will be a PRT. Someone else moving in and living with your mum won’t make them a tenant. 

Last time I commented on a Scottish matter I got it wrong and was firmly, and quite rightly, put in my place!

However - OP, when LoverofLycra says it's a PRT, that means it's a formal tenancy subject to Scottish law which requires, amongst oher things, the landlord to be registered. There's more here:

https://scotland.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/advice_topics/renting_rights/renting_from_a_private_landlord/the_private_residential_tenancy

You don’t need to register as a landlord if you are letting that property to family. 

https://www.mygov.scot/renting-your-property-out/registration/

zagubov

Lover_of_Lycra said:

zagubov said:

filthyrichiwish said:

....
The other thing was I have agreed a very minimal charge of rent to my mum but feel if there is someone else living with her they should contribute to the rent too, so thought i could put a clause saying mum has a discounted single occupancy rate and if subletting the discount would be removed?  Would this be fair and allowed? 
Have more questions but will start with these to see if I can clarify a way forward. Thanks for any advice! 

I'm not sure of the legal situation in Scotland, but I'd imagine, if she pays any rent, even a small amount, her occupation of the house becomes a formal tenancy with regulations to follow, responsibilities, deposit protection needed, and registration with the tax and local authorities and so on. So be prepared to deal with all of that.

If anyone else stays there I think she and you would need to have no rent from that person, or they would have a tenancy (even a lodger has a kind of tenancy in Scotland) although I suppose they can contribute to bills.

This could make it very difficult to move someone out. From posts on threads here it seems that badly-written lodger agreements in Scotland could mean that you cannot remove a lodger for months on end. Plus it the lodger's rent is above a certain amount, she, like you would also need to file a tax return 

You were right in the first sentence, you don’t know the legal situation in Scotland. The mother having someone live with her be it a bidey-in or a lodger aka a common law tenant will not make it difficult to remove that person and I don’t know where you are getting that it can take months on end for a lodger to be removed but that is simply not the case at all. 

There was an unfortunate case in an earlier thread where a landlord took in a lodger and gave them a tenure that had a six month duration and the contract was phrased in such a way that if you missed the sixth month deadline for removing them, it renewed and you were stuck apparently for another six months.
It had all of us aghast at how easy it must be to mess up a landlord-lodger setup north of the Tweed.
I'd be delighted if anyone could tell us what is the easy route for making sure you're not stuck with an unwanted housemate in those circumstances.

As far as I can see, a bidey-in would have a license to stay that would be equivalent to a houseguest or casual visitor, so in that informal situation, I don't see what the worry is.

[Deleted User]

zagubov said:

Lover_of_Lycra said:

zagubov said:

filthyrichiwish said:

....
The other thing was I have agreed a very minimal charge of rent to my mum but feel if there is someone else living with her they should contribute to the rent too, so thought i could put a clause saying mum has a discounted single occupancy rate and if subletting the discount would be removed?  Would this be fair and allowed? 
Have more questions but will start with these to see if I can clarify a way forward. Thanks for any advice! 

I'm not sure of the legal situation in Scotland, but I'd imagine, if she pays any rent, even a small amount, her occupation of the house becomes a formal tenancy with regulations to follow, responsibilities, deposit protection needed, and registration with the tax and local authorities and so on. So be prepared to deal with all of that.

If anyone else stays there I think she and you would need to have no rent from that person, or they would have a tenancy (even a lodger has a kind of tenancy in Scotland) although I suppose they can contribute to bills.

This could make it very difficult to move someone out. From posts on threads here it seems that badly-written lodger agreements in Scotland could mean that you cannot remove a lodger for months on end. Plus it the lodger's rent is above a certain amount, she, like you would also need to file a tax return 

You were right in the first sentence, you don’t know the legal situation in Scotland. The mother having someone live with her be it a bidey-in or a lodger aka a common law tenant will not make it difficult to remove that person and I don’t know where you are getting that it can take months on end for a lodger to be removed but that is simply not the case at all. 

There was an unfortunate case in an earlier thread where a landlord took in a lodger and gave them a tenure that had a six month duration and the contract was phrased in such a way that if you missed the sixth month deadline for removing them, it renewed and you were stuck apparently for another six months.
It had all of us aghast at how easy it must be to mess up a landlord-lodger setup north of the Tweed.
I'd be delighted if anyone could tell us what is the easy route for making sure you're not stuck with an unwanted housemate in those circumstances.

As far as I can see, a bidey-in would have a license to stay that would be equivalent to a houseguest or casual visitor, so in that informal situation, I don't see what the worry is.

This thread?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6088179/evicting-a-lodger-in-scotland

It’s not that difficult to understand. The resident landlord in question gave the lodger aka common law tenant a 12 month fixed term contract that automatically renews for another 12 months. A resident landlord in England could just as easily give a lodger aka am excluded occupier a contract with equally bonkers terms that would make the excluded occupier difficult to get rid of. That doesn’t make excluded occupiers in England difficult to evict any more than it makes common law tenants in Scotland to evict providing the resident landlord in either legal jurisdiction doesn’t box themselves into a corner with a ridiculous contract.