Furlough

sharpe106

bradders1983 said:

sharpe106 said:

He does not have to agree to it, as there is obviously work to do but I doubt would make him Mr Popularity at work if he refused. 

I suspect even if he did agree, he cant be furloughed anyway if he hasnt been before now.

Still got a few hours to get those last requests in. 

sharpe106

NatConFitz said:

Any advice please! My company have emailed me to claim they have paid me too much furlough pay on the first furlough instalment back in April. They want the full untaxed amount back of nearly £1400 in a maximum of four instalments starting from my next payday which will be June 12th (in 3 days). I wrote back to say that I acknowledge there was an increase in what I expected but that I naively assumed it was the same for all employees (it being the first furloughed wage). I was also heavily taxed on that amount so I came out with around £600 more than I get normally. They claim that it wasn’t government furlough as companies didn’t have access to funds at that point (I think funds were being accessed by companies from the 20th April and my pay date was the 17th), and that it was their own money. On my wageslip it clearly states “furlough” next to the amount, also is statutory sick pay added that I was owed from previously. Furthermore, they want the untaxed (gross) amount back  - admitting that I didn’t actually benefit that full amount but that sometime in the future they will reimburse me again if I’ve paid too much back. I have so far not agreed to the instalments (each being over £460), but I’m scared that they will just go ahead with deducting that amount anyway from Friday’s pay. I have sought legal advice but my appointment will be at least three weeks from now.  Any suggestions?

Without knowing if you owe the money back or not, which by sounds of it you do. They can't take the full amount back of you they have to take it back after tax etc, the reclaiming of the tax part is for them to do. 

jimkelly

epm-84 said:

I would suspect the company want the option of having everyone working on a part time basis from July (when part time furlough will be permitted) and to enable that everyone has to be furloughed at least once by this week for a minimum of 3 weeks.

Remember the new rule after June 30th is that a company cannot furlough more staff than the maximum number they have had furloughed at any given time prior to that date.

The example being 10 staff in a firm, rotating 5 for 3 weeks, then swapping to the other 5 for their 3 weeks.  From July 1st, they will not be able to claim for 6,7,8,9 or 10 of them being part time furloughed, only a maximum of the 5 in any given 'period' (with the meaning of "period" yet to be defined, more details released this Friday, 12th) - as that was the maximum number that have been furloughed up to now.

If the reason for putting this chap on furlough now is to part time furlough him later along with everybody else, that's not going to work - unless they're all furloughed for the next 3 weeks.  If it's to give the firm options later on, then fair enough, I suppose but I suspect a lot of firms may get caught out by the fine print of part time furlough.

jimkelly

NatConFitz said:

Any advice please! My company have emailed me to claim they have paid me too much furlough pay on the first furlough instalment back in April. They want the full untaxed amount back of nearly £1400 in a maximum of four instalments starting from my next payday which will be June 12th (in 3 days). I wrote back to say that I acknowledge there was an increase in what I expected but that I naively assumed it was the same for all employees (it being the first furloughed wage). I was also heavily taxed on that amount so I came out with around £600 more than I get normally. They claim that it wasn’t government furlough as companies didn’t have access to funds at that point (I think funds were being accessed by companies from the 20th April and my pay date was the 17th), and that it was their own money. On my wageslip it clearly states “furlough” next to the amount, also is statutory sick pay added that I was owed from previously. Furthermore, they want the untaxed (gross) amount back  - admitting that I didn’t actually benefit that full amount but that sometime in the future they will reimburse me again if I’ve paid too much back. I have so far not agreed to the instalments (each being over £460), but I’m scared that they will just go ahead with deducting that amount anyway from Friday’s pay. I have sought legal advice but my appointment will be at least three weeks from now.  Any suggestions?

It's fairly easy to work out 80% of your pay, so there aren't really any excuses here.  You even questioned the amount yourself, but I guess thought you could get away with it?

Having said that, the extra tax is not your fault so you should agree to refund them on schedule you can afford but on the proviso that they messed up so you shouldn't have to payback the extra tax.  They could try to claim it back from HMRC themselves (good luck with that), but that bit you should not be liable for.

Of course, you could refuse to pay it back, but in the current climate if you want to keep your job I wouldn't recommend it.

Grumpy_chap

Yes, totally fair and reasonable.  The company probably want to do this now so that everyone has qualified for furlough before the end of June deadline and then there is maximum flexibility once the variable furlough comes in.

Grumpy_chap

NatConFitz said:

Any advice please! My company have emailed me to claim they have paid me too much furlough pay on the first furlough instalment back in April. They want the full untaxed amount back of nearly £1400 in a maximum of four instalments starting from my next payday which will be June 12th (in 3 days). I wrote back to say that I acknowledge there was an increase in what I expected but that I naively assumed it was the same for all employees (it being the first furloughed wage). I was also heavily taxed on that amount so I came out with around £600 more than I get normally. They claim that it wasn’t government furlough as companies didn’t have access to funds at that point (I think funds were being accessed by companies from the 20th April and my pay date was the 17th), and that it was their own money. On my wageslip it clearly states “furlough” next to the amount, also is statutory sick pay added that I was owed from previously. Furthermore, they want the untaxed (gross) amount back  - admitting that I didn’t actually benefit that full amount but that sometime in the future they will reimburse me again if I’ve paid too much back. I have so far not agreed to the instalments (each being over £460), but I’m scared that they will just go ahead with deducting that amount anyway from Friday’s pay. I have sought legal advice but my appointment will be at least three weeks from now.  Any suggestions?

This would really benefit from a separate thread to avoid crossed-wires with the OP's thread.
Anyway, the issue of overpaid salary (or furlough) should really be treated like over-paid salary at any time. 
If you ended up with £600 after tax more than you get normally, it is obvious that the payment was more than 80% of salary under furlough.
The fact they want the gross back will probably work itself out from a tax point of view.  In April, you received a high payment of (salary + £1,400) and were taxed on the total.  When you pay this back (assume the 4 installments the company has asked for) you will be paid (salary - £350) and will be taxed on the lower total.
£1,400 split into 4 repayments is £350 each, not £460 you put down in the post.  Have I missed something here?
I think, in overall consideration, the company asking for the over-payment spread over 4 months is fair and reasonable and it would be pragmatic to accept this offer.  The alternative could be the company asking for the full amount in one go, or risk job security.
You knew you had received too much, so it would have been unwise to spend that extra money that you should never have received.
Hope I have helped with a useful perspective.
The only other thing, is if you put all the normal and exceptional figures, it would be possible to review the amounts as there are some possible discrepancies in the figures typed in the post.  I am not sure how £1,400 about 80% works out to £600 more than normal 100% and there is the variance between the installment values £350 or £460.