Confused about 10th June Furlough deadline

jimkelly

Icequeen1 said:

poppy12345 said:

As long as you've been furloughed once you can be furloughed again after June 10th.

yes, but there is a second rule that has been announced which may make things less straightforward. Say an employer has furloughed 10 staff, but on rotation - 5 at a time. The employer wants to bring them all back on reduced hours, and so they are on flexible furlough. However he won't be able to, because there is a new rule saying any new claim (after 1 July) cannot exceed the maxmium number claimed for at any one time prior to that. 

Yes, I spotted that hidden in the second email from HMRC the other day.  It was not mentioned in the one released on the day the Chancellor announced part time furloughing.

I guess they have to cover their back to prevent fraudulent activity, and seeing as we're all paying for it, then it looks like a good idea - although it will catch out a lot of firms.

Icequeen1

calcotti said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Thanks Icequeen - does that mean that we can expect to see employers furlough everyone for the last day of June to maximise their flexibility after 1st July?

No, because if they did they would have no one available to do any work.

And because if the person has been off furlough, the minimum would be 3 weeks and so it would need to be by 10 June. I think. But as Calcotti says, unlikely employers can manage to do that as it would defeat the purpose of rotation (which presumably was to keep some work going)

jimkelly

Here is the relevant text from the second email:

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• On 12 J‌un‌e, we’ll publish full guidance on all the scheme changes on GOV.UK – search for 'Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme' to find this – webinars offering more support on the changes will also be available to book online from 12 June – please do not call us for more information, as everything you need to know about the scheme changes will be published online on GOV‌.UK.
• From 1 July, you’ll have the flexibility to bring previously furloughed employees back to work part time, you can decide the hours and shift patterns they work to suit the needs of your business – you’ll pay their wages for the time they’re in work and can apply for a scheme grant to cover any of their normal hours they are still furloughed for.
• Also, for periods starting on or after the 1 J‌ul‌y, the maximum number of employees you can claim for in any period cannot be higher than the maximum number you have claimed for in a previous period. For example, if your highest single claim for periods up to 30 J‌un‌e was for 100 people, you can’t claim for more than this number in later periods.
• From 1 Au‌gu‌st, you will need to contribute towards the wage costs of your furloughed employees until the scheme ends on 31 Oc‌to‌be‌r.

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I read that as saying the example given earlier in this thread by @Icequeen1 (of a total of 10 furloughed employees rotating 5 at a time) would still be valid.  It just means you couldn't have 6 on (part time or full) furlough at any given moment.

Icequeen1

jimkelly said:

Here is the relevant text from the second email:

-------------- 

• On 12 J‌un‌e, we’ll publish full guidance on all the scheme changes on GOV.UK – search for 'Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme' to find this – webinars offering more support on the changes will also be available to book online from 12 June – please do not call us for more information, as everything you need to know about the scheme changes will be published online on GOV‌.UK.
• From 1 July, you’ll have the flexibility to bring previously furloughed employees back to work part time, you can decide the hours and shift patterns they work to suit the needs of your business – you’ll pay their wages for the time they’re in work and can apply for a scheme grant to cover any of their normal hours they are still furloughed for.
• Also, for periods starting on or after the 1 J‌ul‌y, the maximum number of employees you can claim for in any period cannot be higher than the maximum number you have claimed for in a previous period. For example, if your highest single claim for periods up to 30 J‌un‌e was for 100 people, you can’t claim for more than this number in later periods.
• From 1 Au‌gu‌st, you will need to contribute towards the wage costs of your furloughed employees until the scheme ends on 31 Oc‌to‌be‌r.

--------------

I read that as saying the example given earlier in this thread by @Icequeen1 (of a total of 10 furloughed employees rotating 5 at a time) would still be valid.  It just means you couldn't have 6 on (part time or full) furlough at any given moment.

Yes, agreed, i was saying that if the employer wanted to bring everyone back on reduced hours and still access the scheme that wouldn't be possible, but rotation can continue.