Modern Cars - Can they be too complex?

mattyprice4004

I've often thought this - from when I was 18 to 30 years old I ran a large complement of MG Rover vehicles; thanks to the way MGR were in their latter years the technology was usually basic and easy to repair. 

I've since bought a 2006 BMW 5 Series - and the amount of technology crammed into the car is huge in comparison - and sadly, a lot of it is showing up why a lot of these kind of cars will meet their end. 
The mechanical side of things is pretty much perfect, even on nearly 200,000 miles - however the iDrive system is slow to boot up (an early sign of impending failure, where you need to post off the module to a repairer at a cost of £300), the parking sensors don't work most of the time (likely a water-damaged wiring loom) and the keyfob doesn't work from more than a metre away (the amplifier/receiver for this is in the boot lid, and the wiring to it fails). 
I can only imagine it'll get worse as time goes on. 

I quite liked the BMW 3 Series (2003) I had for a while - that was on 290,000 miles and everything worked well. Even the air conditioning! 

Mickey666

I’d say modern cars are far more reliable than they used to be.  However, if they DO Go wrong they are far more expensive to fix than they used to be.
Also, bear in mind that manufacturers don’t really want cars to last forever.  I don’t mean that in a perjorative sense, just common sense.  Thus they will focus on maximum reliability and lowest servicing costs for, say, 3-5 years and around 60-80k miles.
So, if you buy new cars and change them every 3 or 4 years you’ll likely be very impressed with reliability and all the gadgets.  If you buy older cars in an attempt to keep motoring costs down, you’d best have a small ‘nest egg’ put by in case of a serious problem arising.

How these two ownership strategies work out over time has probably been researched somewhere, though I’ve never seen it.

motorguy

Mickey666 said:

I’d say modern cars are far more reliable than they used to be.  However, if they DO Go wrong they are far more expensive to fix than they used to be.
Also, bear in mind that manufacturers don’t really want cars to last forever.  I don’t mean that in a perjorative sense, just common sense.  Thus they will focus on maximum reliability and lowest servicing costs for, say, 3-5 years and around 60-80k miles.
So, if you buy new cars and change them every 3 or 4 years you’ll likely be very impressed with reliability and all the gadgets.  If you buy older cars in an attempt to keep motoring costs down, you’d best have a small ‘nest egg’ put by in case of a serious problem arising.

How these two ownership strategies work out over time has probably been researched somewhere, though I’ve never seen it.

On the plus side, its usually easy to get parts as theres usually someone breaking one somewhere.

Theres a BMW breaker i've used to get parts for my 2006 330i from and also online from ebay.  I'm fortunate enough to have a BMW indy garage (literally within walking distance if needs be)

Its likely to always be cheaper to buy a car and run it for years, but there may be other considerations at play.

Dr_Crypto

Old vehicles were now where near as good as modern ones. Even into the 1990s they were unreliable. 

How often do you see cars broken down on the motorway awaiting recovery now? Hardly ever compared to the 1980s/1990s when it was a common sight. 

Old cars often rusted away as soon as you looked at them. Not to mention being uncrashworthy with no protection for occupants or pedestrians. Then you had crap and dangerous cross ply tyres. 

Ah and servicing was needed at most every 10k miles and engines needed de-coking! 

AdrianC

EssexExile said:

askeym said:

I see VW Beetles and Morris Minors still around. I worked in a garage in the 60s and cars were reliable and simple. Nowadays if anything goes wrong it's more than likely to be computer related. I used to be called a fitter or mechanic. Now they're called technicians.

But most died within 10 years of birth. My memory of cars in the 60s was that they were simple but unreliable.

Whereas now, the far-more-reliable cars of today are scrapped before they hit 14yo. Some improvement. The only difference is that it's not terminal rot, it's the death-of-a-thousand-papercuts, with small bills adding up to more than the value. Or one big thing has a lie-down, and goodnight Vienna.

Dr_Crypto

True but cars are far cheaper and more affordable now than in the 1960s. 

AdrianC

Dr_Crypto said:

True but cars are far cheaper and more affordable now than in the 1960s. 

A brand spankin' Mk1 Cortina gave a chunk of change from £600 in 1963. That's not much over £12k after inflation today.
The direct successor is the Mondeo, which starts north of £24k. The cheapest Fiesta is north of £16k.

noclaf

AdrianC said:

EssexExile said:

askeym said:

I see VW Beetles and Morris Minors still around. I worked in a garage in the 60s and cars were reliable and simple. Nowadays if anything goes wrong it's more than likely to be computer related. I used to be called a fitter or mechanic. Now they're called technicians.

But most died within 10 years of birth. My memory of cars in the 60s was that they were simple but unreliable.

Whereas now, the far-more-reliable cars of today are scrapped before they hit 14yo. Some improvement. The only difference is that it's not terminal rot, it's the death-of-a-thousand-papercuts, with small bills adding up to more than the value. Or one big thing has a lie-down, and goodnight Vienna.

My 16 yr old focus is the most reliable car I've ever owned...maybe rust will eventually be the final nail in the coffin but I under my 10 yrs it's done 4k per yr on average and prior to that an elderly lady did 3k per year so maybe that's helped.  The car is not as refined as more newer cars but for reliability 5/5!

Penelopa.Pitstop

If you think 3-5 years old cars are too complex, check new ones. I'm at the stage when I'm considering keeping or changing my 3 year old car which was designed in 2010, so not up to speed with all new gadgets. Warranty will expire soon and I'm not sure I want to risk without it and buying extension is not cheap. Problem is, I don't like any new car, because they have touch screens, a lot of driving assistance tools that you can't switch off, etc. I'm going for a test drive of new car today, and I'm worried about things I won't like, instead of being excited at the prospect of getting new car.

I may just swap for some cheaper 3 year old car, which is not as complex as mine and should be cheaper to fix if something breaks. It's the first time, I don't want to get new car, because they have too much stuff I don't like.

When you read about new models from certain brands: A6, A7, Q7 and problems which they have from new, you don't want to suffer it or waste your life on visits to the dealer.

[Deleted User]

I feel the same Miss Pitstop. I’d be scared to have any new car without a warranty which means inevitably swapping cars every few years which is very expensive. Might be good idea to stick with older cars and take the hit on maintenance costs as they will probably be cheaper to run over all.