can my employer make me wait weeks between furlough payments?

shogundave

He's saying that he can only apply every 3 weeks for those 3 weeks wages, this i know is true. However, he's only paying me when he gets those payments. As i understand it, he has to pay me as usual, on the usual day (weekly for me) and HMRC reimburse him. From the Mirror's site (can't post the link yet)

"Employers must continue to pay their employees in the normal way (subject to any deductions that have been agreed with the employee) while waiting for reimbursement from HMRC," explains Pam Loch, lawyer at Loch Associates.

"A failure to do so could result in employees bringing unlawful deduction claims, breach of contract claims and/or resigning and claiming constructive unfair dismissal."

Employers who are unable to pay wages until reimbursement could ask their employees to agree to a period of unpaid leave or to defer payment and make sure they get their agreement in writing and avoid claims from the employees.

So basically, rather than paying me out of his own pocket and then reclaiming it from HMRC, he's waiting for HMRC to give him the cash and then he's passing it on to me. Is this right, or legal? Because as i write, i've had 1 weeks pay (2 weeks ago) in the last 4 weeks and things are getting desperate. If i haven't been paid tomorrow i don't know what to do.

[Deleted User]

shogundave said:

So basically, rather than paying me out of his own pocket and then reclaiming it from HMRC, he's waiting for HMRC to give him the cash and then he's passing it on to me. Is this right, or legal? Because as i write, i've had 1 weeks pay (2 weeks ago) in the last 4 weeks and things are getting desperate. If i haven't been paid tomorrow i don't know what to do.

Is it right is a complicated question, if the company does not have the money to pay you and need to wait to have the funds how could they pay you? Would it be right to not pay another bill that will not be reimbursed, pay you, then be insolvent and so have to stop claiming CRJS and leave you unemployed rather than on furlough? There is no right or wrong, just some very muddy grey.

Is it legal? Technically no, unless you have agreed a deferment in writing, but legal and enforceable are two different things. You can demand he pays you as there is no deferment agreement in place, he will probably make you redundant as he can not afford to pay you, so you will get that weeks/months money but that will be it, no job and no further furlough pay.

If you have any debts, mortgage or loan repayments then make sure you apply for holidays, and of course cut any non-essential expenditure completely. I am also going to make the assumption that you are probably low paid because you are paid weekly. If so I would recommend you check the Entitled To website to make sure you are receiving any benefits you can claim. Have you looked at getting another job, and/or working elsewhere whilst on furlough?
https://www.entitledto.co.uk

Unfortunately a lot of employers were not well placed to weather this storm and many do not have the funds to pay staff without the CJRS, they might just scrape through with the furlough funding, but many will go into liquidation regardless.

shogundave

Haha well he is a small business owner (restaurant) and this is why he's claiming to not be able to pay me. On the other hand, the restaurant is still open, doing takeaways, on a skeleton staff, and the restaurant is if anything, even busier. I've got no doubt whatsoever he's making money. Also, the guy is pretty rich. Like approaching millionaire rich. I find it very hard to believe he hasn't got 800 odd quid to pay me.

And having checked the new contract i signed, there's no mention of pay amounts or when.

[Deleted User]

shogundave said:

Haha well he is a small business owner (restaurant) and this is why he's claiming to not be able to pay me. On the other hand, the restaurant is still open, doing takeaways, on a skeleton staff, and the restaurant is if anything, even busier. I've got no doubt whatsoever he's making money. Also, the guy is pretty rich. Like approaching millionaire rich. I find it very hard to believe he hasn't got 800 odd quid to pay me.

He might be "rich" the company might not be, they are likely separate legal entities. Without knowing the ins and outs of the business it is impossible to know if the business is making more money or not so I can not comment on that. It is however unlikely under the current circumstances that enforcement action would be taken, so long as he us paying you once he receives the CRJS funds.

mobilejo

Some employers have included deferment of pay in the furlough agreements, so the employee has consented to it in signing the agreement.

What does your furlough agreement say?

superbigal

All successful furlough claims are paid by HMRC in time for end of month wages.  Probably "At it"

[Deleted User]

superbigal said:

All successful furlough claims are paid by HMRC in time for end of month wages.  Probably "At it"

They are paid six days after an eligible claim is submitted, which can be in time for the month end, provided that the employer sends it in at the appropriate date. The grant however can not be paid on a weekly basis, but at a minimum every three weeks (minimum furlough period, no overlapping claim submissions), so for employees paid weekly (only around 11% of people are paid weekly and I am surprised that is is that high) it does not work that well if the employer is relying on the funds to pay the employee. 

littlemissbossy

I run a weekly payroll and have been submitting claims a bit randomly.  My first claim was for 4 weeks, subsequent claims have been for either 1 week or 2 weeks (depending how busy I am), I have had no issues getting the grant from HMRC usually between 3 to 6 days.

HTH

This is from HMRC website:

Deciding the length of your claim period

It is for you to decide the length of your claim period. In deciding what your claim period is, you should think about how frequently you run your payroll. The length of claim period will be different for different employers.

You cannot make more than one claim during a claim period - this means you should include all of the employees that you want to furlough for that claim period, because you will not be able to make another claim for the same period or one that overlaps. Claim periods should follow one after another, with no gaps in between, where employees have been continuously furloughed.

You must claim for all employees in each period at one time – you cannot make changes to your claim. It is not possible to amend a claim once it is submitted. HMRC are looking to develop a process to allow for amendments to be made.

You can make your claim in anticipation of an imminent payroll run, at the point you run your payroll or after you have run your payroll. Claim periods can be backdated from 1 March 2020 where employees have already been furloughed from that date. A claim period cannot start any earlier than the date the first employee was furloughed. You can only claim the grant for an employee for the time they were furloughed.

For any claim that you make, the claim end date must be no more than 14 days in the future from the date the claim is made. Any claim period must contain all the furloughed days that the claim amount relates to.