Entitled to nothing?! Please help!

liamover

Hi all! I’m a self employed tradesman and I have been for 3 years. I pay my tax and do a self assessment every year. The government has promised us all 80% over the pandemic period. 

I went to claim my 80%, apparently entitled to nothing. 

I called HMRC numerous times, eventually I found out that over the past 3 years I had mistakenly put my self assessment through as a PAYE, not as self employed. Hence why I’m not entitled to the self employment grant. 

I rang HMRC to ask if they could change my records to self employed. They said this isn’t possible, and there is nothing I can do. 

I’m now hundreds of pounds in rent arrears and I owe money to friends and family, and it seems like there’s no hope in me getting any of these bills and debt paid. Can anyone help or has anyone been in a similar situation? Thank you!!! 

mobilejo

I'm sorry to say I have read of a similar case on a business forum I frequent - a self employed vending machine supplier realised that his accountant has been putting his pay through as PAYE and not as self employed trading profit. They have been in contact with HMRC numerous times and continually knocked back with any request to resolve the issue and re-assess him.

Unfortunately, at least for the immediate future, you may find HMRC are not willing to even look at your case.

I really do hope you get it sorted. Admin errors like this should not be the difference between sink or swim for people.

sliphi

liamover said:

Hi all! I’m a self employed tradesman and I have been for 3 years. I pay my tax and do a self assessment every year. The government has promised us all 80% over the pandemic period. 

I went to claim my 80%, apparently entitled to nothing. 

I called HMRC numerous times, eventually I found out that over the past 3 years I had mistakenly put my self assessment through as a PAYEE, not as self employed. Hence why I’m not entitled to the self employment grant. 

I rang HMRC to ask if they could change my records to self employed. They said this isn’t possible, and there is nothing I can do. 

I’m now hundreds of pounds in rent arrears and I owe money to friends and family, and it seems like there’s no hope in me getting any of these bills and debt paid. Can anyone help or has anyone been in a similar situation? Thank you!!! 

Could you explain further how you put your income through HMRC mistakingly as PAYE?

poppy12345

Look at claiming Universal Credit. Be aware a claim for UC will end any tax credits you may already be claiming. Use a benefits calculator to check entitlement. https://www.entitledto.co.uk/

Council tax reduction can be paid from your local council.

liamover

sliphi said:

liamover said:

Hi all! I’m a self employed tradesman and I have been for 3 years. I pay my tax and do a self assessment every year. The government has promised us all 80% over the pandemic period. 

I went to claim my 80%, apparently entitled to nothing. 

I called HMRC numerous times, eventually I found out that over the past 3 years I had mistakenly put my self assessment through as a PAYEE, not as self employed. Hence why I’m not entitled to the self employment grant. 

I rang HMRC to ask if they could change my records to self employed. They said this isn’t possible, and there is nothing I can do. 

I’m now hundreds of pounds in rent arrears and I owe money to friends and family, and it seems like there’s no hope in me getting any of these bills and debt paid. Can anyone help or has anyone been in a similar situation? Thank you!!! 

Could you explain further how you put your income through HMRC mistakingly as PAYE?

Yeah I’ve tried they are not interested whatsoever! Won’t even listen 

sliphi

liamover said:

sliphi said:

liamover said:

Hi all! I’m a self employed tradesman and I have been for 3 years. I pay my tax and do a self assessment every year. The government has promised us all 80% over the pandemic period. 

I went to claim my 80%, apparently entitled to nothing. 

I called HMRC numerous times, eventually I found out that over the past 3 years I had mistakenly put my self assessment through as a PAYEE, not as self employed. Hence why I’m not entitled to the self employment grant. 

I rang HMRC to ask if they could change my records to self employed. They said this isn’t possible, and there is nothing I can do. 

I’m now hundreds of pounds in rent arrears and I owe money to friends and family, and it seems like there’s no hope in me getting any of these bills and debt paid. Can anyone help or has anyone been in a similar situation? Thank you!!! 

Could you explain further how you put your income through HMRC mistakingly as PAYE?

Yeah I’ve tried they are not interested whatsoever! Won’t even listen 

Please post the expanation here. I, for one, would be extremely interested.

whizzywoo

liamover said:

Hi all! I’m a self employed tradesman and I have been for 3 years. I pay my tax and do a self assessment every year. The government has promised us all 80% over the pandemic period. 

I went to claim my 80%, apparently entitled to nothing. 

I called HMRC numerous times, eventually I found out that over the past 3 years I had mistakenly put my self assessment through as a PAYE, not as self employed. Hence why I’m not entitled to the self employment grant. 

I rang HMRC to ask if they could change my records to self employed. They said this isn’t possible, and there is nothing I can do. 

I’m now hundreds of pounds in rent arrears and I owe money to friends and family, and it seems like there’s no hope in me getting any of these bills and debt paid. Can anyone help or has anyone been in a similar situation? Thank you!!! 

What trade do you do?

How did you account for your business expenses when completing your tax return?

How did you pay the income tax due seeing as you obviously had not paid anything under PAYE?

What did you put in the tax return box asking for your employer's PAYE reference?

All 3 year's tax returns will need to be amended. 

Grumpy_chap

It is the OP's responsibility to file the tax return correctly and quite hard to see how self-employed was incorrectly submitted as PAYE for several years.  It is more than a simple admin issue and, I assume, as well as the impact for SEISS, it could mean the tax paid every year has been incorrect (though I have no ideas whether that would be to the benefit of HMRC or the OP).

I think, at present, the OP is limited to JSA and / or UC claims.  There is a possibility that OP may be eligible for BBLS, but not certain given the circumstances.

Really, if the OP wants more support from a public forum, then more detail needs to be shared about exactly what / how / when the OP works and did the declarations the way they have.  Does the OP do their own tax return, or use an Accountant (who carries PI cover)?

Jeremy535897

There have been a few cases where self employed income has been described as employment income. It is most common in cases where tax is deducted from pay under the construction industry scheme. Is that what has happened here?

You will be liable potentially for class 2 and class 4 NIC when matters are corrected, as I assume you have paid no NIC at all in the last three years (at least)?

Quite late in the day (after the original announcement of SEISS on 26 March), it was decided that amendments to SA returns would not be counted for the purposes of SEISS, if made after 6pm on 26 March. This is therefore not an option.

I have some sympathy with people who have made a filing error, compared with those who have simply been dilatory. Unfortunately the quantum of grant involved is unlikely to make a challenge to the SEISS Treasury Direction successful. Paragraph 10 states:
"10. For the purposes of SEISS, amounts of trading profits and relevant income are determined by reference to a person’s tax returns as at 23 April 2020 but no account will be taken of any amendment made to a tax return on or after 6pm on 26 March 2020 or any contract settlement."

Without paragraph 10, an individual's trading profits are what they are, and putting them in the wrong box on a tax return does not change them from being trading profits. A successful litigant would have to show that "determined by reference to a person's tax returns" meant something other than the obvious interpretation. But a very interesting question arises. Suppose I had been putting all my rental income in the self employed boxes for years, in the mistaken belief that this was the right thing to do. That is not absurd. Lots of people have asked whether rental income can be a business for SEISS, and there have been tax cases on the question in the past. Suppose I also had a small trade that I also declared as self employed, which was adversely affected by coronavirus, and continued trading, so I was eligible for the grant (but would have failed the 50% test if I had put the rental income in the correct place). Does anyone think I should or would receive the grant based on my rental plus self employed income? Surely not. But HMRC cannot have it both ways.

I think a reasoned case could be put, but whether the likely costs of progressing it to the Courts would be worth the grant at stake is another matter.