Cash Withdrawal Refusal

grayjaybee

Apologies if this has already been covered...I'm sure others have experienced it.  I rang TSB to arrange for them to have a largish amount of money in cash (more than £10k, less than £15K) in branch on the next day they deem to be open and was subjected to what I can only describe as an interrogation.  I had actually decided to keep it in my safe at home for the time being but when asked what is was for I was so horrified at the questioning I said 'I might wish to buy something with it'.  So then received what I assume is the standard response to anyone daring to ask for their own money to be made available, that they cant allow this because I may be subject to a scammer, something they say is 'all too common'.  I pointed out that this is most certainly not even a remote possibility in this instance, but then the person moved on to 'well this is company policy now'.  I was invited to bring in a signed quotation if the money was required to purchase a vehicle or some other high end item or if to pay an individual, they must write a letter explaining what for.  I asked if they would pay the full balance if I closed the account, which will be happening once this virus panic is over, but was simply told that in that instance it will be closed and the balance either transferred to another account or I would be sent a cheque.
This simply smells to me of a 'we are going cashless, like it or not'....if they truly had concerns for customers' security they could simply ask anyone withdrawing a large sum, to sign a disclaimer, legally discharging any responsibility from the bank...and the part about company policy, makes me wonder if policy or no, is it legal to deny cash, which as far as I am aware is still legal tender, in any amount up to say £20K or so to the owner of it. ?
Does anyone know the legal position here please...I do plan on going in and demanding it again, but would like to be able to back up my request with what is legally my right.  Damn, this is my flipin money, I feel affronted by this kind of intrusive questioning.......it feels almost Dystopian. !

bradders1983

You could just withdraw £500 a day from a cash machine until you have the amount you need? Transfer £500 a day to a friend or family member and get them to do the same. Wouldnt take you long to get it all.

As an aside, why do you feel your money wouldnt be safe in the bank? I assume this is why you are taking it out?

Old_Lifer

It has nothing to do with going cashless.   The bank is only trying to protect you (and itself).    Lots of people nowadays are  conned   by scammers    into  withdrawning   large amounts of cash to pay for something or other.     When the scam comes to light they say  ' I  wos  robbed, guv !  Why  didn't the bank do something ? '  (to protect me from myself).

grayjaybee

Old_Lifer said:

It has nothing to do with going cashless.   The bank is only trying to protect you (and itself).    Lots of people nowadays are  conned   by scammers    into  withdrawning   large amounts of cash to pay for something or other.     When the scam comes to light they say  ' I  wos  robbed, guv !  Why  didn't the bank do something ? '  (to protect me from myself).

Yes I know they do, which is why (perhaps  you missed this bit of my post) people could be asked to sign a disclaimer if that was a genuine concern of the bank...so there could be no comeback from people who have stupidly believed some scammer.  I am quite capable of making my own decisions about my own money though and was merely enquiring if anyone is aware of the legal position here.  I have to differ in that I feel this has everything to do with moving to cashless....talk to someone involved in banking on the qt and they will often admit this.

grayjaybee

bradders1983 said:

You could just withdraw £500 a day from a cash machine until you have the amount you need? Transfer £500 a day to a friend or family member and get them to do the same. Wouldnt take you long to get it all.

As an aside, why do you feel your money wouldnt be safe in the bank? I assume this is why you are taking it out?

Yes it could be done that way, but living so far from a town it would take considerable time and effort and then the principle still remains...at the time of trying to make the withdrawal in question I had concerns about an imminent banking crisis and potential runs and failures.

bradders1983

The amount you are trying to take out falls well below the amount per institution the FSCS protects, I really wouldnt worry.

Old_Lifer

If I remember correctly,  when I took my exams long ago  ( Chartered Insurance Institute  -  not  banking exams)  we were taught that a bank cannot refuse  to honour a cheque  if there are sufficient cleared  funds in the account.    If you are seeking to make a withdrawal of cleared funds  in  cash   would not this  be similar ?       I don't know.     Banking is not my area of knowledge.

' eskbanker'   who posts on this   MSE  Board   may have  thoughts on the legal position.

castle96

Santander recently - £5k cash one day, £15k cash next (had to order). Minimal Q's

notveryeducated

I don't blame TSB at all, forgive me if I sound ignorant, but in this day and age no one needs £10k in cash. Everything can be done via debit card or bank transfer. 

jonesMUFCforever

OP You could have sparked a visit from the police! If the bank think you have been coerced or possibly a victim of a scam there is a banking protocol where they call the police to discuss it with you.
To me it is utter madness to hold a large amount of cash in the house because A) you won't be insured in case of theft, fire, flood or explosion.
Scammers train you to lie to bank staff and if you look at the Ombudsman website where decisions have been made in similar circumstances there are cases where bank staff put notes on their system that they had explained the pitfalls of withdrawing  large sums of cash, but the ombudsman found against the bank! So they have to be certain that the transaction is 100% legit or they could find themselves having to pay you back if you complain later that you have been scammed.

eskbanker

grayjaybee said:

Apologies if this has already been covered...I'm sure others have experienced it.  I rang TSB to arrange for them to have a largish amount of money in cash (more than £10k, less than £15K) in branch on the next day they deem to be open and was subjected to what I can only describe as an interrogation.  I had actually decided to keep it in my safe at home for the time being but when asked what is was for I was so horrified at the questioning I said 'I might wish to buy something with it'.  So then received what I assume is the standard response to anyone daring to ask for their own money to be made available, that they cant allow this because I may be subject to a scammer, something they say is 'all too common'.  I pointed out that this is most certainly not even a remote possibility in this instance, but then the person moved on to 'well this is company policy now'.  I was invited to bring in a signed quotation if the money was required to purchase a vehicle or some other high end item or if to pay an individual, they must write a letter explaining what for.  I asked if they would pay the full balance if I closed the account, which will be happening once this virus panic is over, but was simply told that in that instance it will be closed and the balance either transferred to another account or I would be sent a cheque.
This simply smells to me of a 'we are going cashless, like it or not'....if they truly had concerns for customers' security they could simply ask anyone withdrawing a large sum, to sign a disclaimer, legally discharging any responsibility from the bank...and the part about company policy, makes me wonder if policy or no, is it legal to deny cash, which as far as I am aware is still legal tender, in any amount up to say £20K or so to the owner of it. ?
Does anyone know the legal position here please...I do plan on going in and demanding it again, but would like to be able to back up my request with what is legally my right.  Damn, this is my flipin money, I feel affronted by this kind of intrusive questioning.......it feels almost Dystopian. !

I'm wondering if this is more to do with anti money-laundering legislation than scam prevention - banks have all sorts of obligations under KYC/AML regulations, including, for example, a requirement to have policies

which provide for the identification and scrutiny of—

(i) any case where—

(aa) a transaction is complex or unusually large, or there is an unusual pattern of transactions, or

(bb) the transaction or transactions have no apparent economic or legal purpose

[and]

which specify the taking of additional measures, where appropriate, to prevent the use for money laundering or terrorist financing of products and transactions which might favour anonymity

I'd expect the enforcement of such policies to involve asking customers questions about the purpose of such transactions, and as soon as a customer is unable to provide a plausible and credible answer and/or objects to being asked and starts getting defensive, then it's hardly surprising that this is going to cause problems.  Arguably it is related to the status of cash as a less traceable payment method, so looking to withdraw £10-15K in cash will always be seen as more suspicious than transferring such funds electronically with a full audit trail.  As such KYC/AML regulations impose obligations on the banks, with sanctions imposed on them if not fulfilled, they're not measures that customers can choose to opt out of....