Advice please? Furlough/unfair redundancy. Please can someone help.

unholyangel

Tealmummy said:

unholyangel said:

Tealmummy said:

This is the advice I have found on it-

"If your employer makes you redundant when they could perfectly well have put you on furlough at no additional cost (meaning that you had agreed to cut down your pay to the 80% reimbursed by the government), in our view, you may have a good case to argue unfair dismissal (if you have 2 years of service)

An Employment Tribunal will  look at the employer’s resources at the time, but if they had no cashflow issue (or if you had agreed to delay receiving your salary because your employer did not have the funds to pay you for now), it seems that making you redundant when they could instead have put you on furlough could be unreasonable"

There's no requirement for your employer to be suffering cashflow issues in order to make you redundant. The requirement is your role being redundant and no suitable alternative. Not whether they can afford your role. 

Employers may sometimes use it as justification (to employees) for why they're making redundancies, but it's not a requirement of it. 

but how is this justified when the government has given the greenlight for people had left jobs previously, be re-employed specifically to go on to furlough?
there is no job for them either but they have a wage.
and what cashflow issues when the governement would be paying 80% and the employer wouldnt top it up?

No, the government said it was for the employer to decide (because it's the employer who is agreeing to be liable to pay your wages & holiday pay irrespective of what they can claim under the scheme), but they only ever spoke of scenarios where the job was still available. They've never said it's okay for employers to rehire people just to claim CJRS even when there is no job available for them and it quite clearly goes against the spirit of the scheme when the rules prohibit a claim for an employee who has had a leaving date sent and administrators are only expected to furlough staff if the business can be saved (ie they'll have a job at the end of it). 

Semple

Tealmummy said:

Yes i understand that- and that the 80% was until august (not october as i stated above), but how is it fair to do so when the cost is very little to him?
because of his incompetance to report earnings to HMRC, i am in a bad situation to claim any benfits.

The issue come July is that the government have mandated that employers must now contribute to the scheme. July starts off quite small, but by the time it gets to October it's a fairly sized contribution. Your employer has likely seen this and has decided that he cannot afford to pay any contributions for either of you, and therefore has no choice but to make your role redundant. 

Unfortunately being furloughed isn't an employee right, so you wouldn't be able to use this as an unfair dismissal claim. 

Do ensure that your employer follows the correct redundancy process, and pays you your statutory entitlement for redundancy. There's been a few posts on here recently where people who have had quite lengthy services have had their employment terminated and their employer has not even considered going through redundancy - this would pave way for an unfair dismissal. 

sharpe106

The link the OP quoted is only somebodies legal opinion, a legal opinion that they will be putting out trying to get clients to potential challenge it in the future. Nothing to do with what the rules currently say.

unholyangel

sharpe106 said:

The link the OP quoted is only somebodies legal opinion, a legal opinion that they will be putting out trying to get clients to potential challenge it in the future. Nothing to do with what the rules currently say.

I haven't went back to check but I don't thinktthink person who wrote it is giving any sort of legal opinion or trying to get clients, just a personal opinion.

Solicitors aren't supposed to take cases with no prospect of success, nevermind creating a fictional basis to entice others to make a claim!

Soulfulness28

Hi All, 

I was wondering if anyone can help me?

I handed in my notice at my job in February and my last day was on April 1st. 

During this period Furlough was announced and was to take place from the 1st April. 

Am I still entitled to the Furlough Government Scheme Money from my former employer? 

If so where can I find this in writing?

Kind regards 

Caroline

poppy12345

Soulfulness28 said:

Hi All, 

I was wondering if anyone can help me?

I handed in my notice at my job in February and my last day was on April 1st. 

During this period Furlough was announced and was to take place from the 1st April. 

Am I still entitled to the Furlough Government Scheme Money from my former employer? 

If so where can I find this in writing?

Kind regards 

Caroline

No one is entitled to be furloughed. It's entirely the decision of your employer if they choose to do this. You will need to speak to them but don't expect them to agree because it does cost them and they will have to re-employ you to furlough you. Also if work is available then furlough isn't an option.

Galloglass

calcotti said:

Quoting things without saying where the quote is from is not helpful.

The source has been given above as: https://workingfamilies.org.uk/articles/coronavirus-furlough/ It is definately there. 

Here is another take on the redundancy issue which appears to separate out those who were let go and then brought back. So there are subtleties that need checked. 

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/make-redeployed-furloughed-staff-redundant/193777

Question for the OP - were you let go and brought back? There is also the question of "can you consult on redundancy with an employee who is on furlough". Technically if you are discussing work, you should be taken off furlough first but it appears the cost of PILON is being dumped on the government a.k.a. us.

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/everything-car-dealers-need-know-redundancies-furlough-scheme-set-taper-off/192283

Thrugelmir

Tealmummy said:

Is there any case for unfair dismissal here? Is it worth speaking to ACAS? I have tried speaking to the owner but he has just said its too expensive to keep us on and he knows the work wont pick up. 

A business doesn't make such decisions lightly. One only has to look at the news to see the impact on the jobs market. Easyjet, RyanAir, British Airways, Rolls Royce, Lookers the list goes on. With insufficient income cutting costs is unfortunately the only route to survival. People are often the biggest cost.  Therefore the first to suffer. 
If your employer was to rehire then you would have a case. Where you job is no longer required. Then ACAS can provide you with no support. 

Galloglass

Is there any case for unfair dismissal here? 

The simple answer is it will depend on the specific facts of your case. There is an example in this link at the bottom
https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/everything-car-dealers-need-know-redundancies-furlough-scheme-set-taper-off/192283

The main point to note is you have 3 months from the date of your dismissal to make your claim. ACAS can provide information but cannot advise. Only a solicitor can do the advice - not some strangers on the internet.