Tricky and in need of some advice...

sistafromanothermista

Hi everyone i’ll try to keep this brief. 

A family member has passed away and myself and another member of the family are administrators to the will. It has come to light that over 4K had been taken from his bank accounts in the year leading upto his death when he was in a care home (he had advance dementia) by another family member. 

We think this constitutes financial abuse and has meant the estate finances are minus 4K. 

The question is, what can we do about it? 

We think this person had their name added to his account whilst he lacked capacity and cannot understand how and why the bank allowed this to happen. There was no court of protection order in place nor LPA

any guidance much appreciated as to bringing this unscrupulous thief to task. 

Flugelhorn

is their name on the account?  
have you asked the individual to account for the expenditure? say you need it for  form filling or whatever

sistafromanothermista

Hi no we are estranged from that side. 

The name appears on the account paperwork but suspect this was added after diagnosis of dementia. Surely it cannot be legal for someone to add their name to an account where the holder lacks mental capacity?

Keep_pedalling

Is this person a beneficiary?

sheramber

You need to establish the facts before you can acuse somebody of wrong doing.
You need to to establish when it was made a joint account and if appropriate, what the money was used for.
 

sistafromanothermista

Keep_pedalling said:

Is this person a beneficiary?

Hi yes they are

sistafromanothermista

sheramber said:

You need to establish the facts before you can acuse somebody of wrong doing.
You need to to establish when it was made a joint account and if appropriate, what the money was used for.
 

Thanks yes we will. We already have some proof of this already from one account. 

My question is what do we do from here? What are the next steps ?

Keep_pedalling

You need to ask them what this money was used for and they claim it was on behalf of the deceased then ask them for proof.

If they can’t do that then treat it as a debt owed to the estate and if their legacy exceeds the debt then simply deduct it from their payment when you distribute the estate.

getmore4less

Do a full cashflow analysis of the account to identify where the money out has gone.
The care home should have records of any moneys they received and may have records for anything brought in or taken away. 
Then it is down to the named account holder to fill in the gaps. 

xylophone

The name appears on the account paperwork but suspect this was added after diagnosis of dementia

Suspect? I think that incontrovertible proof would be required before making an accusation of  fraud/theft.

You also need to remember that a diagnosis of dementia does not automatically mean that a person lacks capacity.

https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/dementia-professionals/dementia-experience-toolkit/how-recruit-people-dementia/consent-and-capacity#:~:text=Traditional%20approaches%20to%20ensuring%20informed,be%20competent%20to%20give%20consent

sistafromanothermista

xylophone said:

The name appears on the account paperwork but suspect this was added after diagnosis of dementia

Suspect? I think that incontrovertible proof would be required before making an accusation of  fraud/theft.

You also need to remember that a diagnosis of dementia does not automatically mean that a person lacks capacity.

https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/dementia-professionals/dementia-experience-toolkit/how-recruit-people-dementia/consent-and-capacity#:~:text=Traditional%20approaches%20to%20ensuring%20informed,be%20competent%20to%20give%20consent

Hi I understand that I have worked in the care sector. We have evidence from numerous doctors saying he lacked the capacity. 

Update-
The bank have said they have evidence of this person withdrawing money to a total over 4K. They have said it is not fraud but is financial abuse and a civil matter! Trying to palm me off to the police (I have reported already and have a crime ref number ) 
the bank allowed this person to fill in a 3rd party mandate WITHOUT seeing the account holder. His signature was forged and no where near a match to what they had on file. Their excuse? ‘Old people’s signatures change over time!!’
I am prepared to fight the bank. How and why did they allow someone to go in, fill paperwork giving authorisation to make withdrawals without talking to or seeing the account holder and with no match to the signature???!!! 

Am I going mad here guys???