Interest rates rising

Aretnap

coyrls said:

Not at all, it applies to individual states, not to the federal government.

Indeed, as is blindingly obvious from the full text of the clause.

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

If the clause was intended to apply to the federal government, every treaty agreed by the US government from 1794 onwards would be illegal.

EdGasketTheSecond

The point is that only gold and silver are to be used as currency (or notes exchangeable for gold as per the original US dollar)

coyrls

EdGasketTheSecond said:

The point is that only gold and silver are to be used as currency (or notes exchangeable for gold as per the original US dollar)

No, that really isn't the point at all. It has been fully quoted above and isn't difficult to understand, unless you don't understand the difference between an individual state and the federal government.

ElephantBoy57

MaxiRobriguez said:

So, I agree with Aretnap - you'll have to wait even longer if you want to see a rise in interest rates.

Of course no really knows whether rates will go up or down. They were predicted to increase, then along came COV19 and they went down.

In the noughties when a 5% interest rate was 'normal' no one predicted our rates going down to almost zero. Many years ago there was scepticism about whether very low rates worked, but now many nations have adopted the policy its become the norm. People may think low rates are good for a countries economy, but not for its people.

EdGasketTheSecond

coyrls said:

EdGasketTheSecond said:

The point is that only gold and silver are to be used as currency (or notes exchangeable for gold as per the original US dollar)

No, that really isn't the point at all. It has been fully quoted above and isn't difficult to understand, unless you don't understand the difference between an individual state and the federal government.

Ok well read about it here and make up your own mind:

https://deanclancy.com/the-constitutions-seven-money-clauses/

"The term ‘power to regulate the value thereof,’ with respect to ‘coined’ money, means simply the power to adjust the amount of gold in U.S. gold coins, in order to keep both gold and silver money in circulation — that is, to counteract Gresham’s Law. (Indeed, because of the Legal Tender Clause, this is not just a power but a duty.) Additionally this power allows Congress to adjust the Mint exchange rates of foreign specie coins vis-à-vis their U.S. equivalents. Importantly, this power does not allow Congress to arbitrarily redefine the value of the dollar any way it pleases."

"The Supreme Court, in its famous Legal Tender and Gold Clause Cases, ruled that Congress has ‘plenary power’ to issue fiat money and dictate its value, pursuant to its power to ‘regulate the value’ of foreign and domestic coin. This interpretation is erroneous. Congress has no such ‘plenary’ power. Its power to regulate the value of gold and silver coins is a limited power that exists for the limited purpose of ensuring that both kinds of coin remain in circulation, that is, to counteract Gresham’s Law."

"To be absolutely clear (for the true pedant), the Constitution does permit paper currency to serve as legal tender. But that currency must be backed by gold or silver coin."

"In short, in the United States only gold and silver coins, or banknotes readily redeemable in such coins, can be legal tender."

Thrugelmir

ElephantBoy57 said:

MaxiRobriguez said:

So, I agree with Aretnap - you'll have to wait even longer if you want to see a rise in interest rates.

 Many years ago there was scepticism about whether very low rates worked, but now many nations have adopted the policy its become the norm. People may think low rates are good for a countries economy, but not for its people.

The aim has been (appearing to be unsucessfully) to avoid the stagnation trap that the Japanese have been in for best part of the past 20 years. 

EdGasketTheSecond

Thrugelmir said:

ElephantBoy57 said:

MaxiRobriguez said:

So, I agree with Aretnap - you'll have to wait even longer if you want to see a rise in interest rates.

 Many years ago there was scepticism about whether very low rates worked, but now many nations have adopted the policy its become the norm. People may think low rates are good for a countries economy, but not for its people.

The aim has been (appearing to be unsucessfully) to avoid the stagnation trap that the Japanese have been in for best part of the past 20 years. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5Ac7ap_MAY

coyrls

EdGasketTheSecond said:

"In short, in the United States only gold and silver coins, or banknotes readily redeemable in such coins, can be legal tender."

Which is obviously not true.

2unlimited91

EdGasketTheSecond said:

"The Supreme Court, in its famous Legal Tender and Gold Clause Cases, ruled that Congress has ‘plenary power’ to issue fiat money and dictate its value, pursuant to its power to ‘regulate the value’ of foreign and domestic coin. This interpretation is erroneous.

So the US Supreme Court says their constitution means one thing, and one person's website says it means something different. And you think we should read this person's website and "make up our own minds"!

Though that is a shift from what you were saying earlier in this thread, when you were putting forward as fact the view of this person with a website, which you now no longer assert as fact, but merely as approximately equally worthy of consideration as the Supreme Court's view.

You've jumped from one farcically bad opinion to another farcically bad one, without even acknowledging that your position has changed.

masonic

We seem to be in danger of another global pandemic rising in the wake of the current one. This second pandemic is not a biological one, but rather a cognitive pandemic spread through disinformation, propaganda, and conspiracy theory. Perhaps not a deadly virus, but certainly capable of inflicting social and economic damage. Fortunately, a proportion of the population already has a natural immunity, and the remainder can reduce their susceptibility to this virus by exercising critical thinking.