Been paid furlough off employer but also claimed Self employed grant?

nodesc55

I have been legitimately self employed since september 2018, and have been ever since, but due to my first year i earned more from employment than self employed i do not qualify for the self employed scheme, therefor i have had no help off the government.

Now, the company i currently sub contract to, has lads who have previously been self-employed to them for several years, up until september 2019 when they all became fully employed PAYE to the company. This means that when we was shutdown due to coronavirus, they were all placed under furlough for 80% of the wage, but now we have returned to work are back on full time PAYE wage, but they have also claimed the Self employed grant as they are deemed eligible due to past previous self employment, even though they are now fully PAYE to the company and intend to be for the future, they do not intend to return to self employment.
So my question is how is this legal? They have recieved 2 types of support off the goverment, where as legitimate people like myself have fell through the cracks and have recieved £0 support off the goverment?

Will the HMRC catch on and wil they have to repay this? or will it be a loophole that they have exploited?

Grumpy_chap

One of the criteria for SEISS is that you are still self-employed and intend to continue being self-employed.  If people changed from self-employed to PAYE in September 2019 then they do not satisfy this requirement.  They must have made dishonest statement to claim the grant and this will be easy for HMRC to identify from 2019-20 and 2020-21 tax returns.

Your position is being one of the unfortunate ones that falls through the gaps of what are very generous schemes.

Jeremy535897

Anyone whose self employed trade has not been adversely affected by coronavirus and/or who is not intending to continue to trade as self employed in 2020/21 is not eligible for the self employed grant. See:

"Who can claim

You can claim if you’re a self-employed individual or a member of a partnership and all of the following apply:

• you traded in the tax year 2018 to 2019 and submitted your Self Assessment tax return on or before 23 April 2020 for that year
• you traded in the tax year 2019 to 2020
• you intend to continue to trade in the tax year 2020 to 2021
• you carry on a trade which has been adversely affected by coronavirus"

It may be that some of them have a separate self employed trade that they carry on at weekends, say, which would enable them to qualify.

nodesc55

Jeremy535897 said:

Anyone whose self employed trade has not been adversely affected by coronavirus and/or who is not intending to continue to trade as self employed in 2020/21 is not eligible for the self employed grant. See:

"Who can claim

You can claim if you’re a self-employed individual or a member of a partnership and all of the following apply:

• you traded in the tax year 2018 to 2019 and submitted your Self Assessment tax return on or before 23 April 2020 for that year
• you traded in the tax year 2019 to 2020
• you intend to continue to trade in the tax year 2020 to 2021
• you carry on a trade which has been adversely affected by coronavirus"

It may be that some of them have a separate self employed trade that they carry on at weekends, say, which would enable them to qualify.

I understand this, but they dont have any self employed income as they have said this themselves. The only income they have is PAYE. My frustration is how can they be eligible for 2 types of generous support but some of us are eligible for absolutely 0.

poppy12345

If they genuinely did claim the SEISS grant and they weren't eligible then HMRC will find out at some point in the future.

calcotti

nodesc55 said: My frustration is how can they be eligible for 2 types of generous support .

As already explained by others, if they do not intend to continue self employment their SEiSS claims are fraudulent.

Nonetheless it is the case that some people will be eligible for both SEISS and furlough if they are both self employed and employed while others may not be eligible for anything.

Grumpy_chap

nodesc55 said:

they dont have any self employed income as they have said this themselves. The only income they have is PAYE. My frustration is how can they be eligible for 2 types of generous support but some of us are eligible for absolutely 0.

They are not eligible for 2 types of support.
They have made a fraudulent claim for SEISS.  At some point there will be repercussions for them.  The grant will need to be paid back, possibly also with interest and penalties.  And maybe a criminal record.  I do not know what the process is in this regard or what the impacts are but there will certainly be recovery.

Potbellypig

I dare say there will be loads of these. I can imagine Ltd company directors claiming furlough and still earning too. 

Grumpy_chap

If it is a one-person Ltd CO. and the company invoiced any Clients during the furlough period, that seems to be proof of working and would negate the CJRS claim.  There is only so much that can be done by managing invoice cycles and, presumably, the cash-flow from early payment will outweigh the value of CJRS grants.  Typically, for one-person Ltd Co, the CJRS will be in the region of £500 - 800 / month and, presumably, most one-person Ltd Co.s earn sufficiently above that level to make the dishonest claim less attractive.

IanNicholls

There are far too many loopholes that need to be closed quickly. Your situation very similar to mine.... see my thread I posted this morning. Good luck!