We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.

This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.

📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!

Sexism and Bullying by Employer during COVID-19 Pandemic

124

Comments

  • Thrugelmir
    Thrugelmir Posts: 89,546 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Semple said:
    I do think the government need to put out some guidelines for these situations. There's going to be tens of thousands of families out there where schools haven't opened for their children yet, and both parents having to balance work around it. 


    Unfortunately the Government cannot micro manage every detail of people's lives. People have to make their own decisions and take responsibility for their own actions. The Government isn't in a position to tell each individual business how to operate either. 
  • Splatfoot
    Splatfoot Posts: 593 Forumite
    Fifth Anniversary 500 Posts Name Dropper
    I think every business that has shown it's employees can work from home during the crisis, need to be pulled up after this if they force their employees back to the office. The work place needs to change but with pig headed employers in abundance, it's going to be  a struggle for a lot. I'm sure many parents would love to have their grandparents etc looking after their kids, as they were before, but unless you're Cummings, this isn't allowed to happen yet. They're stuck between a rock and a hard place. 
  • unforeseen
    unforeseen Posts: 7,403 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    I am also sure that a lot of employers who currently have people WFH temporarily want them back for the simple reason that they don't want to have the H&S responsibilities long term for all those homes.

    It's one thing WFH on the kitchen table or sofa in the short term but another for a permanent situation where the employer has to carry out assessments and provide furniture etc.

    My company has fairly strict requirements for people to have a WFH contract. The main one being a dedicated room to use as an office. A lot of people cannot manage that. 
  • EssJayD
    EssJayD Posts: 148 Forumite
    100 Posts First Anniversary
    Cant see that being an issue given Acas and the HSE have acknowledged that usual H&S standards for working from home may not be practical during this unprecedented worldwide pandemic.  Particularly as the risk/impact level is obviously less than the risk/impact level of catching Covid.  As long employers have checked employees are comfortable etc. this is highly unlikely to be a problem in this temporary situation.

    Thats really unreasonable of your employer to have that policy.  Suitable work environment fair enough but demanding an entire room?  Gosh thats completely unreasonable and could discount people in shared accommodation (which might impact certain demographics of workers than others), people with children or others living with them, people with disabilities who might have had their homes adapting, people on low income who don't have a spare room hanging around.....  I've quite honestly never come across such a policy before and I've seen some bizarre ones!  So strict its no use to those that might benefit the most, maybe thats the point :(


  • Grumpy_chap
    Grumpy_chap Posts: 18,663 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited 2 June 2020 at 1:44PM
    Somehow, a return to 'normality' and workplaces to a greater degree than currently is inevitable while the risk from coronavirus is still present (unless a miracle happens with the speed of developing and administering a reliable vaccine).  So, while ACAS and HSE may turn a blind eye to less than optimum home-working, that can't be something that is deemed acceptable for a long term solution.  I know when I have worked from home in the past, employers have wanted to do work-place assessments (which is fine) and rules such as DSE still apply.  I am sure it won't be long before we are reading "I was forced to work from home during COVID lockdown and I only had the sofa and a coffee table, now who do I sue for my bad back?"

    The solution to all of this is co-operation and discussion from employees and employers, not aggressive demanding on the basis of having some 'right' to special treatment.  This thread OP did not evidence a flexible approach and the title referring to the employer's bad behaviour "sexism and bullying" is indicative of the writer's mind-set as one of entitlement, where actually nothing about either of the claims was substantiated in the content.
  • Hopefully this will be seen as constructive comments:
    As a business owner and also someone who was a single parent when in employment I can see both sides of the argument.  I honestly don't see the comments as sexist or bullying but someone who is trying to keep their business running during very difficult times when many businesses are going under.  Also, I fully appreciate that your child care issues are as a direct result of the Covid-19 restrictions the government has put in place ie. schools are closed.  During "normal" times child sickness would be short term with friends and family being able to step in (not possible now due to social distancing) or the odd day holiday taken by either parent.
    I understood the current guidelines were still "where possible work from home" but obviously that isn't always possible ie. moving furniture to get the business Covid compliant - provided this can be done in a safe manner.
    There is a half hour Government video, although it relates to vehicles, does cover this off a little in the questions at the end and covers off the social distancing in the business environment.  There are other videos on specific businesses:
    ***oops I'm not allowed to post links but if you google on youtube for the Government guidance on Covid compliance of using a vehicle in business you should find it.***
    ACAS has also produced a guide that may be useful.
    The key in the current situation is keeping open good communication between employer and employee, understanding and compromise on both sides and ensuring everyone is safe enabling businesses to survive a extremely difficult times hence saving jobs.
    I do hope my two-penith helps.


  • Thrugelmir
    Thrugelmir Posts: 89,546 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Splatfoot said:
    but unless you're Cummings, this isn't allowed to happen yet. They're stuck between a rock and a hard place. 
    Why no mention of Ian Blackford or Rosie Duffield ...........  The list goes on. 
  • rosiesposies
    rosiesposies Posts: 264 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    agree that this is all viewed as temporary. my employer is actually looking at how to have minimum bods in the office once we get back to normality and i intend on making it work for my teams. cost saving and all that. but there ARE HSE responsibilities for WFH - ie if you slip in your kitchen while on the clock technically its an accident at work. So although in theory its all working now there are long term risks for people that are WFH who do not have adequate set ups. in order to move them to home you have to amend contracts which ultimately means consultation periods. its going to be a challenging year! 
  • EssJayD
    EssJayD Posts: 148 Forumite
    100 Posts First Anniversary
    The ktichen thing isn't correct as it would not be reasonable to expect an employer to have that much control over the work environment at home.  Employer liability for accidents at home would be for things like if they provided a monitor stand that they knew was subject to a recall and it failed and the monitor fell on your toe, or if they provided a desk that they constructed and it wasn't done so properly and fell apart causing an injury etc.  An employer would not be considered to be negligent if someone slipped in their own kitchen, unless the work was say packing slippery substances without appropriate checks on the work environment - could be argued that packing such a substance in the home environment is unsuitable etc


  • unforeseen
    unforeseen Posts: 7,403 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    Cant see that being an issue given Acas and the HSE have acknowledged that usual H&S standards for working from home may not be practical during this unprecedented worldwide pandemic.  Particularly as the risk/impact level is obviously less than the risk/impact level of catching Covid.  As long employers have checked employees are comfortable etc. this is highly unlikely to be a problem in this temporary situation

    That's the point I was trying to make. During Covid all is fine but if it becomes a permanent thing and part of the employees contract then the employer will have more of a duty to consider and act on H&S aspects
Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 351.9K Banking & Borrowing
  • 253.5K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 454.1K Spending & Discounts
  • 244.9K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 600.5K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 177.4K Life & Family
  • 258.7K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16.2K Discuss & Feedback
  • 37.6K Read-Only Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.