Telephone Hearing to Set Aside CCJ at Country Court

injectedmadness

Fruitcake said:

As long as you don't take your eye off the ball you won't get a CCJ. Properly defended, you should win on primacy of contract and could get up to £95 in costs.
If you lose, it should cost you no more than about £175 - £200. As long as you pay up within 28 days of the court case, there will be no CCJ.

That is the biggest problem for me. I sometimes work over 14-15 hours (as I work in odd time zones) and after spending nearly 2 days worth of working hours in a day, life admin usually takes a back burner.

I gather from what you and others are saying that even if I lose now, the judgement will not appear on the public register as long as I have paid within the 28 days. Does that mean that NOTHING related to this court case etc will appear on record if I pay in time or does that mean that prospective lenders will be able to see that a judgement was passed against me and I paid within the allotted timeframe?

henrik777

The main thing is you got the set aside.

However, as other people read this and try to use the information to help themselves .....

. The judge asked for a moment to review and immediately after reading the address line said we will use the discretionary route here and set aside the previous judgement because it is clear the claimant did have knowledge of your address.

Either you've misheard/misquoted or the judge has given you the right result for the wrong reason.

Having a reason to believe that the address they're using and not then following all the CPR rules which MUST be followed is reason to grant a set aside under 13.2. Sure 13.3 can be used to but there are extra hoops to run through.

As it was put in  Dubai Financial Group Llc v National Private Air Transport Services Company (National Air Services) Ltd [2016] EWCA Civ 71 (09 February 2016) by LJ Treacy

"Moreover, I do not consider that the CPR presents an obstacle in the circumstances of this case to setting aside judgment. CPR 13.2 provides that the court must set aside a default judgment where any of the conditions in rule 12.3(1) and 12.3(3) was not satisfied. The latter provision does not apply, but the former is relevant. CPR 12.3(1) states that a claimant may obtain judgment in default of an acknowledgment of service only if (a) the defendant has not filed an acknowledgment of service or a defence and (b) the relevant time for doing so has expired (my italics). I accept Mr McLaren's argument that, when an order for retrospective validation of an alternative method of service has been made pursuant to CPR 6.15(2) the relevant time for filing an acknowledgment of service is the period which the court must specify under CPR 6.15(4)(c). Where, as in this case, the court did not specify any such time there can be no relevant time which has expired for the purposes of CPR 12.3(1). If this analysis is correct the requirements of CPR 12.3(1)(b) have not been satisfied and so the court is obliged to set aside the default judgment pursuant to CPR 13.2(a)."

And LJ McCombe

"I do not see it as a draconian consequence that a judgment, obtained after deemed service has been effected without specifying a time for that service to be acknowledged, should be set aside as of right in such a case. I agree that CPR 13.2 specifies the circumstances in which a default judgment must be set aside and in my judgment one of those circumstances is when judgment is entered in default of an acknowledgment of service when "any of the conditions in rule 12.3(1)…was not satisfied". Here one such condition was not satisfied, namely the time for acknowledgement of service had not expired, because none had ever become applicable.

This, to my mind, is not "playing technical games" (c.f. the passage from the Abela case, cited at paragraph 11 in the judgment of Longmore LJ). It is merely applying the principle that due process should be followed. If a defendant has never become under a valid obligation to acknowledge service, either as specified under the rules or by order of the court, I do not see how it can be that a judgment can be entered against him in default of such acknowledgment. He is simply not in default at all."

injectedmadness

Either you've misheard/misquoted or the judge has given you the right result for the wrong reason.

At the time of my Set Aside application I had requested the judge to set aside the judgement based on CPR 13.3. This was somewhere in early 2020 when I hadn't read any of your posts about the difference between 13.2 and 13.3. Once I found those posts clearly laying out the difference coupled with the last minute evidence that I found, meant that I knew which part of CPR 13.X applied to my case. 

I can imagine that since my evidence was submitted very last minute, the judge did not want to consider it unless I mentioned it. Not sure what was going through the judges mind, but to be fair they were very patient and explained in layman terms at every step what/why they were saying. I think they did say at some point, with the evidence I had submitted including the one related to my health meant that they were satisfied that in both instances of 13.X the CCJ would be set aside. But inlight of the new evidence it was a no brainer to apply the mandatory route.

injectedmadness

No, after a CCJ set aside it's more of a fasttrack situation because the local court already has the case, so it's not like starting from scratch with a claim from the CCBC. 
But DO NOT 'wait for the court to send me paperwork' - eek no!   If UKCPM have been ordered to send you the particulars, then you will then need to file and serve a defence and witness statement & evidence ready for the hearing about the PCN itself.  

• From the General Form of Judgement or Order, the judge has ordered that the Claimant shall send to the defendant the claim form and all supporting documents.

It should be noted here that I have now received this claim form, this was sent to me by Gladstones accompanied by a covering letter citing the order from the judge. The claim form has the original date from 2019.

• Also from the Order, it says that the court shall send to the defendant a defence pack. I haven't received this yet. Although the claim form sent by Gladstones has Form N9, N9A and N9B - is this the defence pack?

• The court order says that I have to send to the claimant and court a defence or acknowledgement of service within 14 days of receipt of the claim form.

The court should have sent out an order following the hearing saying who has to do what and by when - for example have they paid the £255 to you?  If not, alert the Judge!

They have paid this.

Have you sent an email to UKCPM to get a SAR so you can see their hand?  Do that now, if not.

I will request this ASAP. They filed at the time of set aside a very large volume of paperwork. Do you reckon they will submit new information?

You may as well see it through; there is now no CCJ risk and we beat UKCPM 99% of the time here (hundreds of cases).
Nope.  1% of people here lose at a hearing; it's almost unheard of but you'd just pay about £175.  A fair bit less than the claim!  That's because the CCJ was exaggerated.

I will submit the Acknowledgement of Service ASAP. But I ask the same question I have asked above (quoted below). If the answer is nothing will be visible on the public register if I lose and pay within 28 days then I'm happy to take on the stress and anxiety that will come with this.

I gather from what you and others are saying that even if I lose now, the judgement will not appear on the public register as long as I have paid within the 28 days. Does that mean that NOTHING related to this court case etc will appear on record if I pay in time or does that mean that prospective lenders will be able to see that a judgement was passed against me and I paid within the allotted time frame?

KeithP

The answer is almost...

...nothing will be visible on the public register if I lose and pay within 28 days...

Except for two things...

1) the '28 days' maybe different... as decided by the judge at the hearing.

2)The Judgment will appear on the TrustOnline register immediately after the Judgment has been made, but all trace of it will be removed from the register as soon as the payment is made. As all commercial registers take days, if not weeks, to get updated, the effect is, as you say... "nothing will be visible".

Coupon-mad

You don't need to acknowledge service. 

This is not being done via MCOL and an old password on an old N1 claim form won't work now.  You are dealing directly with the local court and you must do this now:

The court order says that I have to send to the claimant and court a defence or acknowledgement of service within 14 days of receipt of the claim form.

Which simply means, grab the forum  template defence (top of this board) and adapt it to suit - takes no more than half an hour.  Do email UKCPM a SAR first though, so you see their hand this month, before the full hearing.

As well as a defence I suggest you do a witness statement and evidence (different from the one you did before) which can be copied and adapted from any other UKCPM witness statement you see, and the same list of exhibits as per the usual ones seen at this stage - see threads by @keypulse or @Chefdave for an example of what to submit as your 'bundle' to Gladstones and the local court, by email.

Ignore the fact Gladstones letters say they don't accept service by email - tough, it's lockdown, and that's how things are done right now in 2020 during the pandemic!

Unusually, post set aside, local court Judges seem to expect you to be able to conjure up a defence, WS and evidence (a whole bundle) all within 14 days - so that's what you need to do but it is all able to be copied from this forum and could be done over a weekend while sitting in the sun (hopefully!).

Finally, I expect Gladstones to discontinue before the main hearing - very common right now - but if you are one of the 1% who lose, then there is NO STAIN, not even a shadow, left on your credit record AT ALL if you paid the £175 or whatever within 30 days in full (it would be less than the claim value because they exaggerate the sum).  Most unlikely to happen, but no damage, nothing visible for a lender in future.  The CCJ has gone!

Umkomaas

@injectedmadness, just so you know, should you lose (and I'm more than certain it won't happen), you must check carefully the deadline date for payment given by the Judge. It's not a standard timeframe - sometimes it's 1 month, sometimes 30 days, 28 days, 14 days. Just very carefully read what it says, don't have any pre-conceived number in your mind. 

Why am I talking about losing .......... ! 🤷‍♂️

injectedmadness

Thanks for responding @Coupon-mad

You don't need to acknowledge service. 

I had between the time of posting on the forum and receiving a response, sent an email to the court and claimant with completed Acknowledgement of Service form. I did this because in the court order the judge specifically mentioned I could submit a defence OR an Acknowledgement of Service.

On the day of my hearing, the Judge asked me if I had previously received any claim related paperwork from the claimant, since I hadn't they said they will give me the option to acknowledge so I could work on my defence and had more time to do that than the 14 days.

Today, after reading your response I called the court. The person on the phone, having consulted her colleague, said as per the order I am within reason to submit the acknowledgement of service or defence. But she agreed that the wording was confusing. She confirmed that I should aim to send my defence within the 28 days but to avoid any confusion I should do it as soon as possible. 

Unusually, post set aside, local court Judges seem to expect you to be able to conjure up a defence, WS and evidence (a whole bundle) all within 14 days - so that's what you need to do but it is all able to be copied from this forum and could be done over a weekend while sitting in the sun (hopefully!).

I think because I had never received the original claim besides what the CCBC told me about it, the Judge allowed me to buy time by giving me the option to buy more time to prepare my defence. Do you see a problem here?

Which simply means, grab the forum  template defence (top of this board) and adapt it to suit - takes no more than half an hour.  Do email UKCPM a SAR first though, so you see their hand this month, before the full hearing.
As well as a defence I suggest you do a witness statement and evidence (different from the one you did before) which can be copied and adapted from any other UKCPM witness statement you see, and the same list of exhibits as per the usual ones seen at this stage - see threads by @keypulse or @Chefdave for an example of what to submit as your 'bundle' to Gladstones and the local court, by email.

I'm going to draft everything over the weekend and aim to send it early next week.

Finally, I expect Gladstones to discontinue before the main hearing - very common right now

I'm very hopeful of this. I have been in touch with the landowner's representative. He has suggested he will raise this with the directors and push for UKCPM to cancel this. He is also going to write a letter to me confirming their intention that they do not want to pursue this. So I'm hoping that even if it doesn't get cancelled, it will help bolstering my defence further.

injectedmadness

@KeithP and @Umkomaas Thanks a lot for the information. I'll carefully review the judge's order and keep an eye out on what the time frame is.

Coupon-mad

Sounds like the Judge was sensible!  Everything sounds good but aim to send your WS and complete evidence bundle - and costs assessmen - with the defence asap, all in one go.  And yes, it will improve your defence if you can show the landowner doesn't support the charge, because that blows their ''legitimate interest'' out of the water.