IVA advice required

gjp2020

Back in 2014 I entered into a selling IVA with StepChange, which was completed in June 2015 when we sold our house, and I used my side of funds and paid this direct to StepChange. Fast forward 5 years, and it it now clear that a substantial amount of this fund never reached a unsecured loan that we had with NRAM. 
Heliodor Mortgages who now own this account after NRAM sold it to them (Late 2019) are now chasing payments from the joint account holder who did not take out an IVA.
When they contacted her in February this year, she immediately raised a complaint with them, but in their latest response they are requesting that I myself proof that this payment back in June 2015 was made.
’The information they need now, is how the money was paid, the bank details, cheque etc was sent to, if it was by cheque when it was cashed etc’.
They state they have been in contact with StepChange, and confirmed that a payment was sent from them to WPM and WPM are the insolvency practitioner. 
Usually IP’s work on behalf on the client, but I thought I was just dealing with StepChange.

Heliodor require this information by the 10th June so they can give a final response to the non IVA account holder regarding her complaint. 
I have sent an email to StepChange with a copy of the letter received today, asking for an urgent response, but I am unsure whether I can this information back to Heliodor by the 10th June.

 I really need some points clarifying if anyone can help.
1) If the funds paid are missing, who it responsible for this, StepChange who are paid the money to, the Watch Portfolio Management, NRAM?
2) I am going to have to make a formal complaint, and again who to, StepChange, WPM?
3) Do I Need to get the FO involved?
3) Do you think I need to seek legal advice as I am getting a feeling that I may need to take this to court.

I am now extremely concerned over this matter, as it’s not just the missing payment but interest charged since 2015 that should not have been, and now I go about getting this all sorted.

Thanks
GJP

ToxtethO'Grady

If you received your  IVA completion certificate from Stepchange's IP team then your IVA has completed and you are no longer liable for this debt. You don't have to do anything about a missing payment it's now between Stepchange and NRAM.

Heliodor have no legal right to chase you for this debt if the IVA completed.

How did the joint account holder manage their liability to the debt?

1) If the funds paid are missing, who it responsible for this, StepChange who are paid the money to, the Watch Portfolio Management, NRAM?

     - If the funds paid are missing it doesn't matter your IVA completed and so you are no longer liable. The other account holder is and would be even if the funds were paid on your behalf. They would only cease liability if they paid the rest of the debt or they had entered and completed their own insolvency.

2) I am going to have to make a formal complaint, and again who to, StepChange, WPM?
     - if Stepchange were managing your IVA then it would be to them and also to NRAM, a Data Subject Access Request (DSAR) to NRAM should be made asking for all statements on the account. As the account should have been closed less than 6 years ago they should have these details.

3) Do I Need to get the FO involved?

     - Not yet it is for Stepchange and NRAM to resolve the issue with the missing payment, Heliodor should not take any action as there is a dispute. Until the dispute is resolved they cannot move the debt forward, if they do, you or the joint account holder, can go to the FO then.

3) Do you think I need to seek legal advice as I am getting a feeling that I may need to take this to court.

     - Not for you as you have completed your IVA and have no liability for this debt, you made the payment and it is not your fault this payment has not been updated to Heliodor Mortgages. The joint account holder is still classed as liable, they will probably need some further advice from one of the debt charities. They would only need legal advice if Heliodor wished to take this to the county court.

mwarby

So I’m reading this as follows, the OP isn’t being chased, but the joint account holder. The creditor are saying the balance which is due is higher than the OP believes is correct as the IVA payment isn’t reflected

Now I suspect the OP is required to do nothing, but if they don’t the joint account holder maybe chased for the larger amount.

I assume you still have the final report from IVA this will say what was paid to who. If the IVA paid out its not your problem but a problem between the creditor, the creditors agent and the IP

I wonder if what happened was part of debt was sold, and only the amount they got for debt was credited to the account, the rest is profit for the debt buyer (who is in some ways entitled as they take a risk buying the debt)

gjp2020

Thanks for the replies.
I have an email from June 2015 from StepChange stating that my payment was made to NRAM via WPM, and I paid a separate fee to StepChange, so the full remaining amount should have been credited to the NRAM loan. 
I know you say that I am not liable, but Heliodor are asking me to supply information, even though they themselves have been in contact with StepChange and have my case number.

After the sale of our property the joint account holder made a substantial payment to this account. 
The complaint she as made to Heliodor is that she should not be liable for the missing money paid from my IVA + interest charged on this since 2015.
I am concerned that I will not be able to provide the proof by the 10th June, and that Heliodor will make her liable, which in means this amount will have been paid twice!.

What is also annoying is that NRAM from 2015-2020 have never contacted the other account any arrears, and Heliodor even state in their letter to her that ‘whilst I appreciate your were informed by the NRAM agent that the payment had been located, I can only assume you were provided with the wrong information’
I think I will just hope StepChange will get back to me this coming week, and I think the other account holder will have to go to the FO after Heliodor’s final response.

mwarby

AFAIK its not really the stepchange IP's job to provide proof of payment some 5 years after the event. It's also not thier job to trace payments from IVA > WPM (an agent for creditor) > creditor > creditor that the debt was sold on to

If the money wasn't received after IVA completion it was for the creditors (which while they may use an agent, is still matter for creditor) to raise this upon receipt of the chairmans report (the final IVA report which includes certificate of completion).

I suspect stepchange will decline to get involved other than perhaps providing a copy of the final report. Whether the money got to Helidor is Helidors problem, you have proof that the IVA completed and paid a certain amount to creditors. I would provide with a copy of final report and nothing else, if they want more THEY need to do the work not you and not stepchange

If the joint account holder is able to clear the debt, I'd suggest they take independent advice, I suggest that a copy of final IVA report would help them get the best advice

fatbelly

gjp2020 said:

3) Do you think I need to seek legal advice as I am getting a feeling that I may need to take this to court.

Why would you need to start court action? No-one owes you any money.
If anyone takes action against you, the IVA should provide you with a complete defence against that claim

sourcrates

Let’s gets a few things clear shall we, this is really non of your concern, you are jumping through the hoops for this creditor, there timescale is meaningless, heliodor can ask whatever they like, and you are free to ignore them, they can make any assumption they choose, it’s got nothing to do with you.

Do you have a certificate of completion for the IVA, yes or no ?

If yes, then its between them and the IVA provider to sort out, the distribution of assets is a formal process, and to have a creditor left out of this process would be unusual.

Your joint account holder is still liable for the full amount, they should just state any further payments to them are unaffordable, and leave it at that, you do not have to provide them with any further information, they may ask for an income/expenditure for the joint holder, provide a good example to back up your case, these debts are not usually chased for very long if there is no possibility of payment.

gjp2020

fatbelly said:

gjp2020 said:

3) Do you think I need to seek legal advice as I am getting a feeling that I may need to take this to court.

Why would you need to start court action? No-one owes you any money.
If anyone takes action against you, the IVA should provide you with a complete defence against that claim

Sorry I meant Legal advice/court action from the joint account holder

sourcrates

gjp2020 said:

fatbelly said:

gjp2020 said:

3) Do you think I need to seek legal advice as I am getting a feeling that I may need to take this to court.

Why would you need to start court action? No-one owes you any money.
If anyone takes action against you, the IVA should provide you with a complete defence against that claim

Sorry I meant Legal advice/court action from the joint account holder

But on what basis ?

See my post above, you are going about this entirley the wrong way, its not your problem to solve, simply refer them to your IP, they will deal with it.

mwarby

sourcrates said:

If yes, then its between them and the IVA provider to sort out, the distribution of assets is a formal process, and to have a creditor left out of this process would be unusual.

Also for this to still be an issue 5 year after IVA completion would be expectionally unusual, there must be some time limit for the IP(they would only keep records for so long).

ToxtethO'Grady

The advice here is for the joint account holder not for OP I think.

OP: When the substantial payment was made did the joint account holder receive acknowledgement that the payment was in Full and Final Settlement for the debt?

The wording has to be very precise, if only OP's was on this, then the joint account holder is still liable. NRAM should have a record of the payment and what happened, DPA and GDPR state all records should be kept for, at least, 6 years in finance.