Furloughed,Company now wanting holidays back and unpaid overtime

CannonballJay

HI I work for a company in the hospitality sector so we cant go back to work until the pubs and bars etc reopen.
When we were furloughed we were told that the company were going to make our wages up to 100% but they want us to hand back 5 days holiday AND do 40 hours unpaid overtime "to help the business". They have now changed this to hand back 2 weeks holiday and 80 hours unpaid overtime. 
So the company are wanting back nearly £1500 worth of overtime and the holidays to cover the £200 per month they are paying me to make my wage up to 100%.
I don't want to seem ungrateful but something seems very off about this whole situation and i cant find out if this is actually legal.
Any views on the above would be appreciated.

[Deleted User]

What they are proposing is illegal, they can not attach conditions like that to your furlough. They can make you take holiday whilst on furlough, as long as they top up your pay to 100% for that period, they can even make you take your entire holiday allocation leaving none for the remainder of the year, but they can not ask or require you to work unpaid overtime upon your return.
The difficulty is that whilst the unpaid overtime requirement is illegal and morally wrong, it also may mean that those who do not comply will be made redundant so there is a difficult decision you will have to make there. 

Grumpy_chap

While you are on furlough, you are receiving the 80% CJRS plus the 20% top up from your employer.  You cannot work for your employer while you are on furlough but you should remain available to work for your employer if they call you in, which could be possible before they can open to support getting ready and making the changes that will be needed for when the business does reopen.

You can be on furlough, then asked to work, then back on furlough.  Each period of furlough must be a minimum of 3 weeks.


The phrase, being asked to hand back holiday is odd terminology.  You can be asked to take annual leave during the furlough period (or at any time) so long as the company gives you sufficient notice of the days to be taken off as annual leave.  I think it is 2 days' notice for every day taken off.  I understand if this is during furlough, then you have to be paid 100% for that time, but you are being anyway by the employer.  Asking you to take some annual leave during the furlough is not entirely unreasonable as you do continue to accrue annual leave entitlement while on furlough.  I don't know when your holiday year runs or how much leave you get per year, but say:

• Holiday year Jan - Dec
• 4 weeks annual leave per year
• Most people won't have taken a lot of holiday in the cold winter before lockdown at the end of March, so already 1 week accrued
• Lockdown Apr - May - June = 3 more months so another week accrued
• The company will need to protect against everyone coming back for, say, the final six months of the year and everyone getting the whole 4 weeks off.  Asking that you take 2 weeks off by the end of June seems reasonable - it just happens that this is while you are on furlough.

The other issue is asking you to do 40 or 80 hours of unpaid overtime "to help the business" once you return.  I am not an expert, but that could fall foul of the rules about not working for the company while on furlough.  You would be sort of doing 'delayed work'  I doubt there is a clear answer on this as the legislation was written very quickly and I doubt the specific situation you describe was considered.  Trying to think this through:

• 3 months of furlough = 12 weeks
• Assume 40 hours per week = 480 hours
• 20% of 480 hours = 96 hours
• What you are being asked to "give back" is about the same / a bit less then the company is incurring a cost by topping up the furlough to 100%

It seems a better solution, rather than the company "doing the right thing" / generous / trying to support their staff during furlough, would have been that the company did not top up the 20% during furlough.  Maybe they did so believing they had to, or given the speed of it all, just did not think through the costs, while probably also trying to be a good employer.  Now they realise the impact and are trying to make some of it back.  Given they cannot go back, another alternative that would be more inline with the furlough rules would be to ask staff to take a pay cut when they go back of 20% for as many weeks as you have been on furlough.

Hopefully somebody on here will be able to give definite answers.  To me, the holiday request seems fair if it is done correctly.  The 'free overtime' may be contrary to the rules of furlough, but you can see what the company are trying to do.  They do seem to be trying to do things fairly and have caught themselves in a bit of a trap.  If you like working there, you might also 'do the right thing' and try to offer them something that supports the business - it will be hard enough for hospitality sector as it is - are you re-opening 4th July?

[Deleted User]

nannyto2 said:

Just be happy you have a job at all

How very helpful and uncalled for. 

DM261

nannyto2 said:

Just be happy you have a job at all

Reported for making a quite extraordinary comment. Being asked to work two weeks of full time hours for no pay is completely illegal.

ComicGeek

Given that the company has been paying 100% they shouldn't automatically be seen as the bad guy in this. Every company is working hard to survive, and it's obviously taking a lot longer for the hospitality sector to open in a profitable way than initially expected.

Everyone needs to make sacrifices, both employers and employees, otherwise there won't be any jobs anyway. The OP has been paid full salary for doing nothing. I feel there needs to be a shared effort, and a better balancing act than people just shouting 'that's illegal'.

The 'sensible' decision for the company is to make as many people redundant as possible and minimise overheads, particularly given the expected extra employer contributions to furlough costs from August - it's good that they are trying to make it work, even if it means employees providing some free hours at some point.

CannonballJay

Thanks for the replies its good to have people giving an impartial view on this.
I agree its better than having no job at all it would have been nice for the company to explain things a bit better, our HR are not the most diplomatic.
As for the reopening on the 4th july, its anyones guess at the minute.
We work for the breweries fitting the pubs out(pipes ,pumps,etc) but they will need a few weeks notice before they can open, lots of prep work and things like the pubs will be full of out of date beer that needs removing or throwing down the drain, i dont know if they breweries are actually brewing as normal at the moment, and how will the social distancing work, ppe etc. lots to do.

caraboo

Hi Guys  
My daughter has been on furlough in May and paid 80% of wage and 3.5 days at 100% holiday. 
She did not want the holidays as she was saving them till later in the year which they were aware of.   
Others in the office who have been on furlough since March have only 1.5 days taken as they have already taken holidays prior to this. 
This seems to be unfair, just wondering what your thoughts are and if this is lawful.
Thanks

Grumpy_chap

@caraboo - may be better with your own thread.  Quick answers are that employer can dictate when annual leave is taken subject to giving notice - it might seem unfair to the employee but could also be a problem to the employer is everyone tries to take a whole year's annual leave in 6 months once you are all back at work.