Who do I sue the builder or his company?

amadf1

I plan to sue a builder, the contract/agreement title says "Builders Name" and then in brackets ("His company name"), do I sue him as an individual, or his registered company? he's listed both on the contract. 

Another question, his company is a Limited company, could he just pull out money and bankrupt his company when I sue him? His "Micro company accounts" states £1000, does that mean all the assets in his company? 

And if he bankrupts his company, if he is found not to have declared his income or paid tax (which im unsure of), is the liability transferred to him as an individual? 
Thanks in advance

bris

If he banked your cheque, bank transfer etc into the company account then you sue the company. If it went to a personal account then you might get away with suing him personally.

If he used the ltd co for this then no you can't sue him personally.

DoaM

Is the company registered at Companies House as a Limited company? (I assume Yes as you mention Micro company accounts). What's the company number?

And as per above, which account did you pay into? His personal account or the business account? (Was it cheque, bank transfer, something else?)

amadf1

DoaM said:

Is the company registered at Companies House as a Limited company? (I assume Yes as you mention Micro company accounts). What's the company number?

And as per above, which account did you pay into? His personal account or the business account? (Was it cheque, bank transfer, something else?)

yes the companies registered is companies house im not sure what the company number is

the majority of payment was in cash with paper receipts to confirm i paid him, a small portion was paid into a bank account but I don't how to tell the difference between a company bank acc and individual bank acc?
thanks all

davidmcn

amadf1 said:

DoaM said:

Is the company registered at Companies House as a Limited company? (I assume Yes as you mention Micro company accounts). What's the company number?

And as per above, which account did you pay into? His personal account or the business account? (Was it cheque, bank transfer, something else?)

yes the companies registered is companies house im not sure what the company number is

the majority of payment was in cash with paper receipts to confirm i paid him, a small portion was paid into a bank account but I don't how to tell the difference between a company bank acc and individual bank acc?
thanks all

If you found the accounts then you must know what the company number is? Or just tell us the company name.

Who are the paper receipts from - him or the company?

DoaM

The company number will be on the Companies House registration.

When you made the bank transfer you'll have specified an account number, sort code and an account name. (I accept that the account name doesn't need to be exact - it is the number and sort code that is critical).

amadf1

DoaM said:

The company number will be on the Companies House registration.

When you made the bank transfer you'll have specified an account number, sort code and an account name. (I accept that the account name doesn't need to be exact - it is the number and sort code that is critical).

your right, the bank transfer details he gave me included his personal name, not his company name.

i checked the company number online, it starts with 100, please let me know the relevance to the number?
thanks all

davidmcn said:

If you found the accounts then you must know what the company number is? Or just tell us the company name.

Who are the paper receipts from - him or the company?

the paper receipts are signed under his personal name

steampowered

A judge would look at what was on the contract and the surrounding circumstances, to decide whether he or she thought the contract was with the individual or the company.

It sounds like it is not entirely clear who you were contracting with. But on balance if someone gave me a contract saying "Mr X (X Ltd), I would probably think I was contracting with the company.

If you get a CCJ against the company, the builder may well fold the company. If the builder took assets out of the company (e.g. by taking the money you had paid to the company for himself) then you could challenge that, as the removal of cash from the company would be a transaction defrauding creditors, but it would be an extra hoop to jump through as you'd then need to bring a further claim against the individual personally. 

Kattekwaad

if you have paid some in cash some of that if not all will most likely not gone through the business.  A wee threat of involving HMRC might help. 

amadf1

steampowered said:

A judge would look at what was on the contract and the surrounding circumstances, to decide whether he or she thought the contract was with the individual or the company.

It sounds like it is not entirely clear who you were contracting with. But on balance if someone gave me a contract saying "Mr X (X Ltd), I would probably think I was contracting with the company.

If you get a CCJ against the company, the builder may well fold the company. If the builder took assets out of the company (e.g. by taking the money you had paid to the company for himself) then you could challenge that, as the removal of cash from the company would be a transaction defrauding creditors, but it would be an extra hoop to jump through as you'd then need to bring a further claim against the individual personally. 

the company has just 1 director and that is the builder who i contracted with, if that makes any difference.. and all banktransfer and cash collection was under his name instead of the company. is there any way of checking to see if the company declared the income?

any idea on the procedure of doing this in court?  i am worried he will just bankrupt it

steampowered

amadf1 said:

steampowered said:

A judge would look at what was on the contract and the surrounding circumstances, to decide whether he or she thought the contract was with the individual or the company.

It sounds like it is not entirely clear who you were contracting with. But on balance if someone gave me a contract saying "Mr X (X Ltd), I would probably think I was contracting with the company.

If you get a CCJ against the company, the builder may well fold the company. If the builder took assets out of the company (e.g. by taking the money you had paid to the company for himself) then you could challenge that, as the removal of cash from the company would be a transaction defrauding creditors, but it would be an extra hoop to jump through as you'd then need to bring a further claim against the individual personally. 

the company has just 1 director and that is the builder who i contracted with, if that makes any difference.. and all banktransfer and cash collection was under his name instead of the company. is there any way of checking to see if the company declared the income?

any idea on the procedure of doing this in court?  i am worried he will just bankrupt it

Personally I would sue the individual personally. The fact that the builder's personal name was on the invoice and that payments were made to a personal account does create a strong impression that this was a personal contract rather than a company contract.

As you say, if you got a CCJ against the company, there is a strong chance that he would fold the company. While you could then sue the individual if he had taken the money for himself (as that would be a transaction defrauding the company's creditors), that would add an extra set of court proceedings with the associated delay and expense.

It is pretty straightforward to issue a claim. You simply write a letter before action, then 14 days later issue through the government's moneyclaimonline website. Extra care is needed if the amount of the claim exceeds £10k, as the claim will only be treated as a "small claim" if it is below that amount.

There is no way for you to access the builder's personal tax return or the company's tax return with HMRC. Nor is there any real basis for making a report to HMRC as you don't have knowledge of any facts suggesting tax evasion - for all you know the builder could have declared this income as a self-employed income. Nor is it likely that HMRC would investigate. I wouldn't get too distracted worrying about the builder's tax affairs.