Furlough

Phil8977

Hi, 
Can anyone help me out. I work for a company delivering food ingredients, my furlough started on VE Day (great move). On the Wednesday afternoon after work, I was called in to the office, informed and told about being furloughed, I was given barely 24hrs notice, the shock of it threw me and caught me totally off guard as this was the last thing I was expecting. The company is still operating after we told work and contracts lost. HOWEVER the work is still there and the company are using sub-contractors to do our work whilst I’ve been furloughed, how can this be. Surely the company should of stood down the sub-contractors in favour of there own staff. Is there anything I can do, to save my job, and get back to work. I would be extremely grateful if anyone can help, as I believe what the company is doing is illegal. 
Thank you 

Jeremy535897

There is nothing specific in the rules on CJRS to prevent the company furloughing you in these circumstances, although it seems to be against the spirit of CJRS, but what it implies is that they can get sub-contractors to do the work more cheaply than their own staff.

Mrsn

I think Jeremy has summed it up really. 

It must be very frustrating in your position but I don’t believe what they have done is illegal and that is the decision they have made.

As for saving your job that was originally what the scheme was intended for though it has changed a lot since then admittedly.

PixelPound

Jeremy535897 said:

There is nothing specific in the rules on CJRS to prevent the company furloughing you in these circumstances, although it seems to be against the spirit of CJRS, but what it implies is that they can get sub-contractors to do the work more cheaply than their own staff.

Not necessarily. Maybe the company has a contract with the subcontractors in which they would still have to pay them. OP is on PAYE so straight forward for furlough - the company pays and claims the money back, so no delays to their wages, even if 80%.  The sub-contractors may be in a different position if employed by an agency on zero-hours or maybe self-employed but possibly not got accounts from long enough to qualify. 

Maybe the employer has looked into all sides before deciding on the route of least pain.

Grumpy_chap

It is not clear what the OP's actual concern is.  Been furloughed (like many of us) and either receiving 80% pay, or maybe topped-up (but we are not advised by the OP).  Is there more to this that the OP is not sharing?  Surprising comments about "save my job".  One way or another 'food ingredients' will still need to be delivered.  The OP does not say which sector the employer is in - is it catering supply-chain, which is why they are affected?

sharpe106

I guess they are worried about their job, if it cheaper for the company to furlough him and get subcontractors in. Without actually knowing why the company are using the subcontractors and not normal staff nobody knows. 

Grumpy_chap

How does the OP know that they are using subcontractors and not normal staff?  Sometimes, particularly distribution, there is a mix of the distributor's staff (direct employees and contract), sub-contract companies but also sometimes Clients have their own collection fleet of vehicles.  If it is these latter Client vehicles, then that is not contractors.  To really know that subcontractors are being used, the OP would need to be standing at the gate now (rather than just the day after he was put on furlough) and watching who is coming and going.

Catlunn

Hi, this is a bit of a tricky one if anyone can help it would be be a great help.When lockdown  started I was working in a dry cleaners, been there 12 years. My employer told me he would be claiming furlough for me but I didn't receive any conformation on this. I was called to go back to work on 6.5. 20. which I did. Last week I got a very verbally abusive phone call from my boss. I asked him not swear at me, he continued to do so and unfortunately  I ended up telling him to stick his job. I haven't been back and he hasn't contacted me until today. I have been sent a small claims court form saying that he is now claiming back for the holidays I took because he could'nt get furlough for me. He says I agreed to use my holidays, which I didn't and there is nothing in writing about this. I have replied to the small claims court but I really don't have a clue what is going to happen. I'm so worried about this that I'm sat here at 2.30 am unable to sleep. I have been in touch with ACAS and CAB but they can't seem to help
 

Galloglass

Catlunn said:

Hi, this is a bit of a tricky one if anyone can help it would be be a great help.When lockdown  started I was working in a dry cleaners, been there 12 years. My employer told me he would be claiming furlough for me but I didn't receive any conformation on this. I was called to go back to work on 6.5. 20. which I did. Last week I got a very verbally abusive phone call from my boss. I asked him not swear at me, he continued to do so and unfortunately  I ended up telling him to stick his job. I haven't been back and he hasn't contacted me until today. I have been sent a small claims court form saying that he is now claiming back for the holidays I took because he could'nt get furlough for me. He says I agreed to use my holidays, which I didn't and there is nothing in writing about this. I have replied to the small claims court but I really don't have a clue what is going to happen. I'm so worried about this that I'm sat here at 2.30 am unable to sleep. I have been in touch with ACAS and CAB but they can't seem to help
 

Should really have a separate thread for this one, as it is different from the others as ACAS and CAB have pointed out. Report it to the mods to get your own thread.

In the meantime, and to prevent getting a default CCJ you have to acknowledge within 14 days from the date in the top right of the claim. You then put in a defence within 28 days from the date in the top right of the claim. So acknowledging and getting your own thread would give you time to explore what defence (and counterclaim for redundancy) you can send to the court. 

Have a feeling this should have gone through ACAS, an Employment Tribunal and then Small claims but you're stuck with trying to head off the small claims issue first.