Joint Tenancy - Joint and Several Liability for Guarantors

Comms69

inspectorperez said:

Comms69 said:

inspectorperez said:

Comms69 said:

inspectorperez said:

For anyone who is interested in this topic, I have found an insurance product with "Only My Share" which covers the joint and several liability issue which I was posting about. Annual premium is £99 which on the face of it soesn't sound bad at all. I'm waiting for sight of a policy document template, but if anyone else has experience of this company or this form of cover, I would be interested to hear observations. The cover is unpaid rent only and does not cover property damage. I believe there is a cap of £10,000.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10005047/filing-history

They were almost struck off and how no capital. - always do your due diligence  

Only My Share is the trading name and nothing whatsoever to do with the limited company you refer to. That is what my due diligence has discovered

This Guarantee is provided by Only My Share Ltd.
Registered in England No. 10005047. 7 Henrietta Street, Covent Garden, London, WC2E 8PS.
Every guarantee that we issue is insured by A rated UK insurers via Gauntlet Sphere.

Onlymyshare is a trading name of Sphere Commercial Solutions Limited which is an appointed representative of Gauntlet Risk Management Ltd.

www.onlymyshare.com

... try harder...

You appear to be a bit of a wind up merchant!

No, i just think people should be very careful promoting products and services here. It's already on the cusp of the rules, but especially for this topic which comes up time and time again (J&S liability)

inspectorperez

davidmcn said:

inspectorperez said:

macman said:

Why does a salaried NHS doctor need to provide a guarantor, unless his credit record is shot to pieces?

"This is the common practice in letting industry when letting the houses to students and young professionals"

Quote from agent. All 4 co tenants are doctors would you believe!

Even if it is a common practice, it's an utterly absurd one where they've already got joint and several liability from four professionals on relatively high salaries.

macman said:

So all 4 are adult professionals with secure and highly paid jobs? So I'd be asking the agent and their LL why a guarantor is required. Unless, as I said, they have poor credit history.
At what age can an 'adult professional' expect not to have to ask mum and dad to sign what is in effect a blank cheque? They could probably get a mortgage without this absurd rigmarole.

Exactly! These doctors are all in their 2nd year of post qualification from UK Medical Schools and are of a similar age group in early twenties. It is possible that none of them have a credit history to speak of. Certainly my own son has only recently acquired a credit card. He has however been a tenant in 4 previous properties throughout his student days and there has never ever been an issue of unpaid rent or whatever and deposit bonds have always been returned intact.

inspectorperez

Comms69 said:

inspectorperez said:

Comms69 said:

inspectorperez said:

Comms69 said:

inspectorperez said:

For anyone who is interested in this topic, I have found an insurance product with "Only My Share" which covers the joint and several liability issue which I was posting about. Annual premium is £99 which on the face of it soesn't sound bad at all. I'm waiting for sight of a policy document template, but if anyone else has experience of this company or this form of cover, I would be interested to hear observations. The cover is unpaid rent only and does not cover property damage. I believe there is a cap of £10,000.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10005047/filing-history

They were almost struck off and how no capital. - always do your due diligence  

Only My Share is the trading name and nothing whatsoever to do with the limited company you refer to. That is what my due diligence has discovered

This Guarantee is provided by Only My Share Ltd.
Registered in England No. 10005047. 7 Henrietta Street, Covent Garden, London, WC2E 8PS.
Every guarantee that we issue is insured by A rated UK insurers via Gauntlet Sphere.

Onlymyshare is a trading name of Sphere Commercial Solutions Limited which is an appointed representative of Gauntlet Risk Management Ltd.

www.onlymyshare.com

... try harder...

You appear to be a bit of a wind up merchant!

No, i just think people should be very careful promoting products and services here. It's already on the cusp of the rules, but especially for this topic which comes up time and time again (J&S liability)

I'm not promoting any product or service here! I am genuinely interested in ways and means to protect myself and my son if that is not obvious from my previous posts.

As it happens, I now agree with your red flag and the company concerned (company number 10005047) is indeed a named party in the template document which I have now received by email. The registered office address contained in the template is different to the one shown on Companies House file which is obviously a warning sign and the micro accounts indeed show that the company itself has little substance.

I am surprised that there appears little choice for an insurance product which I would have expected to be in demand given the number of renters there are these days particularly in the student and young professional age groups.

Comms69

inspectorperez said:

Comms69 said:

inspectorperez said:

Comms69 said:

inspectorperez said:

Comms69 said:

inspectorperez said:

For anyone who is interested in this topic, I have found an insurance product with "Only My Share" which covers the joint and several liability issue which I was posting about. Annual premium is £99 which on the face of it soesn't sound bad at all. I'm waiting for sight of a policy document template, but if anyone else has experience of this company or this form of cover, I would be interested to hear observations. The cover is unpaid rent only and does not cover property damage. I believe there is a cap of £10,000.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10005047/filing-history

They were almost struck off and how no capital. - always do your due diligence  

Only My Share is the trading name and nothing whatsoever to do with the limited company you refer to. That is what my due diligence has discovered

This Guarantee is provided by Only My Share Ltd.
Registered in England No. 10005047. 7 Henrietta Street, Covent Garden, London, WC2E 8PS.
Every guarantee that we issue is insured by A rated UK insurers via Gauntlet Sphere.

Onlymyshare is a trading name of Sphere Commercial Solutions Limited which is an appointed representative of Gauntlet Risk Management Ltd.

www.onlymyshare.com

... try harder...

You appear to be a bit of a wind up merchant!

No, i just think people should be very careful promoting products and services here. It's already on the cusp of the rules, but especially for this topic which comes up time and time again (J&S liability)

I'm not promoting any product or service here! I am genuinely interested in ways and means to protect myself and my son if that is not obvious from my previous posts.

As it happens, I now agree with your red flag and the company concerned (company number 10005047) is indeed a named party in the template document which I have now received by email. The registered office address contained in the template is different to the one shown on Companies House file which is obviously a warning sign and the micro accounts indeed show that the company itself has little substance.

I am surprised that there appears little choice for an insurance product which I would have expected to be in demand given the number of renters there are these days particularly in the student and young professional age groups.

It's a poor business model. The company relies on recovering the rent from the 3rd party (defaulting tenant) - but if they had money they'd be paying the rent!

It's too much of a liability. 

saajan_12

inspectorperez said:

For anyone who is interested in this topic, I have found an insurance product with "Only My Share" which covers the joint and several liability issue which I was posting about. Annual premium is £99 which on the face of it soesn't sound bad at all. I'm waiting for sight of a policy document template, but if anyone else has experience of this company or this form of cover, I would be interested to hear observations. The cover is unpaid rent only and does not cover property damage. I believe there is a cap of £10,000.

So you're paying £99+ to shift your credit risk from the housemates to the OnlyMyShare company. Considering how many of such guarantees they would be (trying to) sell, with little assets behind them, what makes you more confident they will pay you instead of your housemates. The other issue is timing - perhaps there's a benefit if they pay you as soon as you claim, and then recover from the housemates later. They don't say they do, in which case you're left covering the bill to the LL (and any court costs etc that come with it if you can't pay) and then waiting for OnlyMyShare to recover from the housemates, which you could have done yourself. 

inspectorperez

saajan_12 said:

inspectorperez said:

For anyone who is interested in this topic, I have found an insurance product with "Only My Share" which covers the joint and several liability issue which I was posting about. Annual premium is £99 which on the face of it soesn't sound bad at all. I'm waiting for sight of a policy document template, but if anyone else has experience of this company or this form of cover, I would be interested to hear observations. The cover is unpaid rent only and does not cover property damage. I believe there is a cap of £10,000.

So you're paying £99+ to shift your credit risk from the housemates to the OnlyMyShare company. Considering how many of such guarantees they would be (trying to) sell, with little assets behind them, what makes you more confident they will pay you instead of your housemates. The other issue is timing - perhaps there's a benefit if they pay you as soon as you claim, and then recover from the housemates later. They don't say they do, in which case you're left covering the bill to the LL (and any court costs etc that come with it if you can't pay) and then waiting for OnlyMyShare to recover from the housemates, which you could have done yourself. 

As I understand it, the parties covered by the policy would be myself (as guarantor) and my son (as tenant) against the risk of non payment by one of the other tenants. The insurance policy works apparently like any conventional insurance policy where the insured party makes a claim in response to a claim issued by the Landlord under the terms of the joint and several guarantee. The other tenants are not party to this policy at all and will stand or fall under whatever arrangements they may or may not have outside the tenancy agreement.

I'm still undecided what to do, and may suggest to my son that he offers to pay say 6 months rent upfront instead of entering into a joint and several guarantee if this is acceptable to the landlord.

Funnily enough and as a bye the bye, since I was criticised in an earlier post for being on the cusp of advertising, I have discovered this company being listed (not advertised) in the housing guides issued by several  universities for 2019/2020.

saajan_12

inspectorperez said:

As I understand it, the parties covered by the policy would be myself (as guarantor) and my son (as tenant) against the risk of non payment by one of the other tenants. The insurance policy works apparently like any conventional insurance policy where the insured party makes a claim in response to a claim issued by the Landlord under the terms of the joint and several guarantee. The other tenants are not party to this policy at all and will stand or fall under whatever arrangements they may or may not have outside the tenancy agreement.

Yes, the other tenants aren't party to it, so OnlyMyShare pay you, but then in turn recover their money by claiming from the other tenants since they caused the loss OnlyMyShare suffer. Similar to how car insurance would go after the party at fault. They would only go to their insurance as a worst case. My question is what are the terms & conditions on when you get your payout from OnlyMyShare - is it before or after OnlyMyShare have (tried to) recover from the tenants? 

inspectorperez said:

I'm still undecided what to do, and may suggest to my son that he offers to pay say 6 months rent upfront instead of entering into a joint and several guarantee if this is acceptable to the landlord.

Son will still be jointly & severally liable for the full rent - would you then bail him out or let him get into debt / face court fees etc if he doesn't pay? Would only really help if the other tenants also paid 6 months upfront. 

inspectorperez

saajan_12 said:

inspectorperez said:

As I understand it, the parties covered by the policy would be myself (as guarantor) and my son (as tenant) against the risk of non payment by one of the other tenants. The insurance policy works apparently like any conventional insurance policy where the insured party makes a claim in response to a claim issued by the Landlord under the terms of the joint and several guarantee. The other tenants are not party to this policy at all and will stand or fall under whatever arrangements they may or may not have outside the tenancy agreement.

Yes, the other tenants aren't party to it, so OnlyMyShare pay you, but then in turn recover their money by claiming from the other tenants since they caused the loss OnlyMyShare suffer. Similar to how car insurance would go after the party at fault. They would only go to their insurance as a worst case. My question is what are the terms & conditions on when you get your payout from OnlyMyShare - is it before or after OnlyMyShare have (tried to) recover from the tenants? 

inspectorperez said:

I'm still undecided what to do, and may suggest to my son that he offers to pay say 6 months rent upfront instead of entering into a joint and several guarantee if this is acceptable to the landlord.

Son will still be jointly & severally liable for the full rent - would you then bail him out or let him get into debt / face court fees etc if he doesn't pay? Would only really help if the other tenants also paid 6 months upfront. 

"I hereby confirm, on behalf of -----------Ltd, that in return for receipt of the Fee stated above and subject to
the terms of the Guarantee Contract we agree to stand as guarantor to the above named Guaranteed individual
in respect of Joint and Several Rent Arrears accrued during the tenancy agreement detailed above. Our liability
under this guarantee is limited to the amount stated as the Guarantee Limit above. I confirm that ----------
Ltd holds a valid policy of insurance with a reputable insurer (named below) in respect of any liability it incurs as a
guarantor in respect of Joint and Several rent Arrears."
"2. What We Will Do
Provided the Guaranteed has paid the Fee, and complies with the terms of this Guarantee Contract, upon
receipt of a Demand in respect of Joint and Several Rent Arrears we will, at Our own cost:
Deal with the Landlord on your behalf;
Negotiate the best possible terms to resolve the matter
Pursue the Co-Tenant who has triggered the Default Event for payment (including legal action if
required)
Pursue all other Co-Tenants to contribute (including legal action if required) towards any Demand
Advise you promptly if it is reasonably foreseeable that our £10,000 limit may be exhausted without
clearing the entire Demand for Joint and Several Rent Arrears
Agree to waive any rights under common law to recover any amounts we pay from the Guaranteed or
the Tenant that the Guaranteed has provided a rent guarantee for."

There are exclusions of course which I believe are quite acceptable. I would also be not be averse to waiting for payment as long as I wasn't being strung along.

Doesn't really seem to be an obvious one size fits all solution other than standing firm with the Landlord's agent and hoping that they might compromise.