Furlough leave

Jonesy1977

epm-84 said:

Potbellypig said:

bradders1983 said:

Not as if your employer is asking you to go into the office, is it? Thousands of people are currently working from home and having to keep an eye on the kids as well. First world problems.

It's another example of people not prepared to be flexible in these situations, and expecting these kind of things are black and white as per before. So many people are expecting the world to revolve around them. 

There isn't enough information given to draw that conclusion.  We don't know if the employer has done everything they can to ensure the employee can work from home.  Many employers are just saying employees should work from home without ensuring they have somewhere to work which meets H&S requirements.  OK in the first instance there wasn't time to do H&S assessments but now the PM has said those who can't work from home should return to their workplaces, it means if there isn't a safe, suitable place for you to work at home then your employer should be expected to reopen the workplace if they want to take you off furlough and get you back to work.

Health and Safety assessments cannot be done for home workers.............., normal rules do not apply.  If your employer asks you to return to work then you return to work or accept that you will not be paid and that the goodwill and relationship with your employer will be soured.  You could of course demand a HS assessment, demand that childcare is considered and demand that it must be safe for you (at home) but you risk the very real prospect of losing your job.  

nomorekids

I really dont see what the problem is with working from home?   In my sons' team of home workers, they have one chap with an 8 year old and 2 year old twins, whose wife is living away in temporary hospital accommodation away from the home at the moment as she is nurse on Covid ward.  He answers what emails he can during the day as that is all he can do and my son allocates the work such that he does the report write ups and proof reading from the rest of the team in the evenings.  Homeworking isn't necessarily ideal but it can be done.  I'm furloughed but honestly wish instead my employer had instead allowed me to work from home as I would have worked what I could during day but mostly in evenings too. Its about getting the economy moving again and saving jobs, everyone has to be flexible and adapt to a new normal. 

epm-84

Jonesy1977 said:

epm-84 said:

Potbellypig said:

bradders1983 said:

Not as if your employer is asking you to go into the office, is it? Thousands of people are currently working from home and having to keep an eye on the kids as well. First world problems.

It's another example of people not prepared to be flexible in these situations, and expecting these kind of things are black and white as per before. So many people are expecting the world to revolve around them. 

There isn't enough information given to draw that conclusion.  We don't know if the employer has done everything they can to ensure the employee can work from home.  Many employers are just saying employees should work from home without ensuring they have somewhere to work which meets H&S requirements.  OK in the first instance there wasn't time to do H&S assessments but now the PM has said those who can't work from home should return to their workplaces, it means if there isn't a safe, suitable place for you to work at home then your employer should be expected to reopen the workplace if they want to take you off furlough and get you back to work.

Health and Safety assessments cannot be done for home workers.............., normal rules do not apply.  If your employer asks you to return to work then you return to work or accept that you will not be paid and that the goodwill and relationship with your employer will be soured.  You could of course demand a HS assessment, demand that childcare is considered and demand that it must be safe for you (at home) but you risk the very real prospect of losing your job.  

Don't know how H&S assessments work at your place but at places I've worked you fill in your own H&S assessment form - I don't know how someone else would be expected to determine whether the desk and chair are suitable for someone of your height and build!  If everything's good then the employer doesn't need to take any action, other than filing the report.  If there's issues then they need to look in to them.

I've seen reports from legal experts in The Guardian saying it may be necessary for employers to arrange for chairs, tables, non-laptop computers, footrests etc. to be taken from the office to people's homes so they have a safe working environment as an employer cannot expect someone to work in an unsafe working environment.  They've also said the employer would be liable for certain H&S breaches e.g. if you developed back problems as the result of sitting on a dining room chair at a computer for 8 hours a day, even if they wouldn't be liable for others like tripping over an extension lead which runs half way.

The fact that Boris has said if you can't work from home then you should return to your workplace means it's harder for employers to argue they aren't liable if their employee makes them aware that it is not safe for them to be working from home. 

bradders1983

epm-84 said:

bradders1983 said:

I work with 7 other people, all working from home. 3 of them have young kids. 
I suggest the OP, without wanting to sound rude, gets a grip.

That doesn't mean they are working productively from home.  A BBC report found that those working from home who have young children are typically only working at 80% of the capacity their childless colleagues are working at due to the high number of distractions.  

Irrelevant.  The enployer has asked him to start work again, and without even going in to the office, on full wage. He should be biting his hand off.

Jonesy1977

epm-84 said:

Jonesy1977 said:

epm-84 said:

Potbellypig said:

bradders1983 said:

Not as if your employer is asking you to go into the office, is it? Thousands of people are currently working from home and having to keep an eye on the kids as well. First world problems.

It's another example of people not prepared to be flexible in these situations, and expecting these kind of things are black and white as per before. So many people are expecting the world to revolve around them. 

There isn't enough information given to draw that conclusion.  We don't know if the employer has done everything they can to ensure the employee can work from home.  Many employers are just saying employees should work from home without ensuring they have somewhere to work which meets H&S requirements.  OK in the first instance there wasn't time to do H&S assessments but now the PM has said those who can't work from home should return to their workplaces, it means if there isn't a safe, suitable place for you to work at home then your employer should be expected to reopen the workplace if they want to take you off furlough and get you back to work.

Health and Safety assessments cannot be done for home workers.............., normal rules do not apply.  If your employer asks you to return to work then you return to work or accept that you will not be paid and that the goodwill and relationship with your employer will be soured.  You could of course demand a HS assessment, demand that childcare is considered and demand that it must be safe for you (at home) but you risk the very real prospect of losing your job.  

Don't know how H&S assessments work at your place but at places I've worked you fill in your own H&S assessment form - I don't know how someone else would be expected to determine whether the desk and chair are suitable for someone of your height and build!  If everything's good then the employer doesn't need to take any action, other than filing the report.  If there's issues then they need to look in to them.

I've seen reports from legal experts in The Guardian saying it may be necessary for employers to arrange for chairs, tables, non-laptop computers, footrests etc. to be taken from the office to people's homes so they have a safe working environment as an employer cannot expect someone to work in an unsafe working environment.  They've also said the employer would be liable for certain H&S breaches e.g. if you developed back problems as the result of sitting on a dining room chair at a computer for 8 hours a day, even if they wouldn't be liable for others like tripping over an extension lead which runs half way.

The fact that Boris has said if you can't work from home then you should return to your workplace means it's harder for employers to argue they aren't liable if their employee makes them aware that it is not safe for them to be working from home. 

You are correct, however you are ignoring the fact that it is simply not possible or practical for employers to make such arrangements at this time without putting others at risk to ensure you are "safe to work" to your satisfaction in your own home.  Good luck with that at a tribunal.....in 12 months time if you are lucky. You have the absolute right to make this argument to employer as to why you will not return to work.............but they have the absolute right to bring you off furlough and you could find yourself taking unpaid leave or worse the company has to start drawing up redundancy plans.   Wake up  

Grumpy_chap

Superref83 said:

I've been asked by my employer to return to work from furlough in a 'work from home capacity' can I decline given I have a 1 year old son and partner who is a teacher and still working? 

You can decline, but you'll probably find you have no job.  Even if your employer agrees leave or unpaid leave, continuing on furlough once there is work to be done is not really a long-term option (as you would risk asking your employer to commit fraud).

I am sure with a bit of positive inclination and innovate thinking you can definitely make this work.  It is in a 'work from home capacity' you are being asked to provide output.  Surely, if you are available during core hours to take calls and respond to urgent e-mails, then your boss never needs to know if you make up for reduced productivity by working at non-core hours when your partner is back home and can take over child-care.

How did you manage child care when you were both working before furlough?